Ep24 | How Do We Heal Broken Men? (Ft Alex Holmes)

You know the first time you ever got upgrades that are they gonna take this phone and then I'm gonna have to get the New one and you wanted to keep both But in the world of us, you don't get to keep the old phone So when you become the new person that you're expecting that you need to be you will have to let go of certain friends You have to let go of certain relationships and you say no, but some of these friends are called Oh, can I keep them is that yeah, but a bit toxic sometimes, right?

You gotta let go this Is talking to my food? Welcome to talking to my thoughts the podcast where we have open honest and raw conversations But with a twist we bring unique perspective on our thoughts by literally Pre-recording the things that are on our mind before talking about them with the group Now we do this because we believe before you can be open with others.

You first have to be open with yourself So make sure you guys stay up to date with all of our content by following us on our socials at talking to my thoughts And make sure you guys listen to the end to hear some of our responses To some of your full provoking questions. Now, my name is Simon aka SJ. I'm a proud St.

Lucian You know this I'm a father of two and I'm a content creator Craig over to you And my name is Craig aka mr Positive also a proud St. Lucian a person with big dreams big mindset and always believes that the best can come out of anything Yes, and we are very thankful today to be joined by our guest Alex, please introduce yourself. Yeah, my name is Alex Holmes. I'm a therapeutic coach.

I'm a writer podcast host and I'm a Jamaican I'm happy to be here man. I appreciate you both Thank you. Thank you.

So Before we're gonna jump into our conversation Obviously, we want to give our listeners a little bit of opportunity to get to know our guest a little bit better So Alex if you don't mind indulging us in a couple of questions I'm just gonna throw a couple of questions at you and just speak freely about it. Yeah, so the first question is What do people never ask you that you wish that they did?

What do people never ask me that I wish that they did I don't know people are like I'm quite So, you know, we're hitting on them powerful questions Yeah, you know what I think I would like people to ask about just ask me about kind of about just like purpose and About the journey. Do you know what I mean?

Like they kind of find me and they just They just jump in straight actually off the bat around like all the stuff that I posted or kind of my podcast So I said this and that and the other but it's very rare that people ask me about how I got there But also that's down to me as well I should be I'm getting around to sharing that whole journey when in my book and on my podcast and being a bit more vulnerable with that sort of side, but Yeah, I think that's one thing that I decided but I always thought that It's not really about what people what I want people to ask me.

It's kind of what I'm willing to share So the next question is What is the greatest lesson you've learned about life so far? The greatest lesson I've learned is That you never stop learning to be perfectly honest because The moment you feel like you're done. I Don't feel like you've lived really Yeah, it's like it's never done. It's always You're always in revolution. You're always in Momentum you're always moving.

There's always something that is coming It's a consistent wheel of personal growth.

It's a consistent wheel of development and Yeah, you're never done man That is it and I can't even and that's me at 29 imagine me at 82 I was sitting here like So I look at it and I just think to myself, you know, yeah man, it's never done and It's always just beginning, you know, I mean like it's always just beginning at every single phase so Yeah, man, that's what that's that's what is one thing.

I've learned our topic for today is healing broken men and It's also talking about like self-love self empowerment self forgiveness Now when I did a bit of research into this and try to get my understanding of what at least Broken what that would essentially mean to be a broken man. It comes down to one simple thing.

I guess it means to Hurt or be damaged emotionally and that could be through anything It could be a trauma it could be a harmful event. It could be through just situations that's happened and life experiences You guys can kind of obviously go in the direction of self-love as well, but in a few words as possible What does that initially mean to you when you hear that topic?

Something makes me pop up in my head about society's pressure on men and That can break them in in turn kind of like the need to be successful or highly responsible and then if they ever fall off the pedestal Then they can find themselves beat feeling lost almost useless to an extent as well Why because men usually live by purpose and if they are not feeling that they're fulfilling their responsibilities Then they can feel that they're not actually fulfilling anything and there's no point of them I don't think I'm kind of against the idea of being broken But I'm very much with the idea of being emotionally Traumatized and going through those traumas Self-love is important and a lot of men have gone through a process of self-abandonment From childhood up until You know their 444 moment and It's a It's a big thing.

It's a it's a it's a it's an important conversation to have actually cool With that said let's open up the conversation man. So we're gonna play our first voice note, Craig I don't know which one you've got lined up first, but we'll listen to the first voice note. Obviously pay attention And then we'll just we'll just open up the conversation from what we hear man at the moment I feel really Really good.

I don't have much outside of what happened In the past few years and with regards to my mental health journey my ups and downs with what's going on there At the moment I've come I've made several breakthroughs with regards to therapy And kind of what I need to deal with and to challenge in order for me to become the best version of myself the best possible version of myself But the whole journey really started with me having a breakdown when I was in Scotland Working for a company that I didn't want to work for doing a job I didn't want to do and being in a career that didn't satisfy or serve me I didn't feel as if I was doing a service to people and And That's the career side and that was a lot of stress.

That was a lot of work. That was a lot of A lot of pain that happened there.

It was really this it was really it was really painful being in that space just because When as men we run through so many different Expectations so many life things that we just don't That we don't explain that we don't explore that we don't talk about And I think one of the huge impacts is that work It's not helped by people like Steve Harvey who Kind of make it a very blanket statement to say men's self-worth is in there is in how much they earn and Then the values and how it is in the material success whereas women's is in the emotional success and I don't agree I don't agree with that.

I I think that We all have equal and balanced needs when they are when it's a whether it be about emotional and material success And what that means for each of us individually But growing up as a man, obviously you are consistently told material success is the way and you have to win and you have to fight and To fight and everything's a challenge and in all of those natures, it's very difficult to It's very difficult to kind of move from that at times because you are kind of stuck in this stereotypical kind of Vortex that happens and that's what kind of led me to my first breakdown.

I was under so much stress with myself I wanted to do well. I felt like I wasn't being the man I was supposed to be I Was if I like I wasn't being the man that That was expected of me it was horrible was it was bad and I felt inadequate I had a huge imposter syndrome Was difficult.

It was a challenging and emotional time for me And so the doubt it was also learning about myself Learning about love learning about Friendship learning about identity learning about who I was in any of this The early part of my 20s was very very difficult between 21 and 26 was like one of the hardest few years I had ever ever encountered and because a lot of coming of age a lot of Learning and Yeah, I think yeah, it was really difficult and I think that the saving grace for me was finding the friends that I needed to Be around me having the conversations finding the courage That I needed to do this stuff.

I needed to do getting into therapy Becoming a coach myself and then kind of embarking on becoming a therapist myself And those are the things that I learned and in over time healing healing the relationships with my family healing relationships Within my friendship groups healing the relationships with it with myself Yeah, that is that is it very interesting perspective on What if I a good question I like to ask you Alex is when you was a teenager Did you already?

So, I guess there's a point when you went to 21 to 26 There was a breakdown of yourself in a sense of maybe your self-belief or what you believed you could achieve in this open world now Especially according to everybody else. But did you have that as a teenager? When did it first occur that you realized that you?

Maybe didn't believe in yourself or didn't But though you there's something that wasn't enough Yeah, man like a lot of this stuff it does stem from from childhood and teen And and yeah and adolescence, right?

Those are different things going from my mind at any given time sensitive empathetic compassionate all of that Doesn't have that there's no room for that in a masculine dominated kind of Society and world really you're consistently told that that is not correct told that is not right So Yeah, definitely between in that in those early phases.

It was kind of just a Process of trial and error like for everything going to uni never knew why Left you he never knew what I was gonna do.

I You know went away and studied Got a career in something that I didn't even study at uni No longer in that career anymore completely looking for a complete swivel in Korea completely and it's just like That's what he's able to pull together from it Yeah To say that by the time the 20s were over you realize actually It can feel like while it was happening that you're just failing and it's not going well But then really sometimes if you could change the perspective it will be like well, you know what not to do You know how not to navigate, you know, what doesn't align with you and now you've really discovered.

Okay actually I can just do the things that actually we were originally who I really was Yeah, yeah And when you look back on it as well, you kind of think to yourself What there were loads of telltale signs of the person that you were going to be sitting there looking back at this Yeah, all the way through and it's just that you can't you make you know, I always say we are a series of decisions We are a series of choices and things we make choices every day.

We make decisions every day We are put up against so many different things each day And you can go one way or the other in any given moment And as I said earlier, it's a consistent learning isn't it? It's a consistent lesson So yeah How did you feel in that moment? What was the initial kind of feelings that you was getting from that?

So backstory is that I went to train as a journalist And I was on a scheme with a paper and i'd been with this scheme for like two years before And then I kind of did another set of training with them And in and out of that training in london, they were like, we don't feel like you're ready We're going to send you to scotland no choice in the matter No Let's that what do you want to do? None of that.

It was we're going to send you to scotland so You feel like I felt a deep sense of shame In that I couldn't do the job properly. So they sent me to glasgow. I was away from my family um I was away from my friends.

I Was had this mad fear that I was going to be forgotten that was going to be left behind Um, I was going to fail in the place Um, and there were some instances where I did some really mad stuff at work and like yeah I got slapped on the wrist several times but um It was all because I didn't want to be there every day. I walked into the office. I would put on this mask of Good morning. Hey everybody. How you doing?

But I didn't want to be there But I was just in a very very deep really bad emotional way I had to go home for christmas and I had to come back up on like the day after or two days after My birthday is over that period. I spent my birthday at work.

I spent new years at work new years by myself My birthday by myself um And it just was a lot It was a it was a lot and it just and it kind of made me Yeah, it just kind of pushed me over a little bit because I because I knew I didn't want to be in that space also, that was that there was and and you know in the time of like Going through therapy and kind of like really doing a deep self-evaluation and work.

It's not about the job you know Never about the job.

That's it was about it was about me It was about How I showed up for myself It was about how I felt about myself letting other people define me You know, they tell me that they want me to go to x y and z And they say they tell me that i'm not ready and they tell me that i'm not doing this and they tell me x y and z And i'm not in this place and i'm not in that space. But what do I think about that?

How I guess the question would be how did you heal from that? And I know you've already kind of touched on those things where you said well you connected with a lot of your friends again Your family you went to therapy What made you? Make that decision what made you decide?

Okay Of course this therapy may be something that I need or I need to consult with my friends I need to kind of reconnect to be able to find myself again. What was kind of the moment that kicked it for you?

I went back to like the london offices And I had a panic attack That was when I was thinking like I need to go to I need to I need to like really look into Getting a therapist and start to talking start talking about what is going on Because it was just unwielded Unmanaged Untamed emotion everywhere everywhere And uh touch on that actually so you you said you had a panic attack.

How did how did what happened at that moment? Um, so the panic attack happened because so I went to uni and when I was at uni I studied french and spanish and in my and in and in the applications languages are always Coveted in it.

They're always wanted everybody's like oh you speak languages that we can use you for x y and z um, I Again the whole insecurity thing the anxiety stuff the lack of self-belief the lack of self-confidence the lack of everything Um, I was in this journalism job. It's me one at this desk, right?

Uh me one and then so i'm like the i'm like the junior reporter and then there's like some other kind of reporters there Um, and then you know, you've got the head of news Rolling around it's a sunday as well and I should have been at home um The head of news is running around trying to find people. He's like, oh Who wants to go to calais? Who wants to go to calais?

I was like, you know, you're just you know, when you're like really like I'm trying to be seen right now, but like But that's how I that's how I felt like I was just sitting there But I was really just kind of like looking at the looking at the computer screen not doing anything He eventually picked someone else who was a bit more senior um But I was hyperventilating and I was like really shaking when you left and I was really like Like and it was just kind of um, so every time you walked past I would get like tense and anxious And I would do that and it got to a point where I was so I couldn't focus I couldn't do anything my hands started trembling and my skin was prickling Couldn't breathe.

Um, I left the office Went downstairs called my friend said that I think i'm having that's what's happening You guys like I think i'm having a panic attack called me And he can't he just counted me down And he helped me count down my breasts and slow down Ground myself. Where are you? What can you see? What can you feel? We're like, you know, breathe in for how many breathe out for how many?

um and all of that stuff so That was this that was a panic attack and it was and I was like, oh and I was like I don't whether want to be in that position again. I felt like it was but like I was losing control of my reality um I can't do it. I'd have night tremors um I'd have a fear of every time an email came through my work phone.

I'd be scared That it'd be asking me to do something that I didn't feel like I'd do um It was a lot of stuff man It was a lot of stuff. That sounds like a hard place to be It does it was a funny thing isn't it but then you obviously you healed from that though, so you obviously had those Those don't well healing exactly.

So you've you've obviously thankfully found uh an avenue which has Helped you to be able to do that obviously when When we're thinking about this it can come in so many different aspects.

You're thinking about I don't know Growing up without a dad you can feel broken like rejection regret heartache Failures as you talk about with your work and how you felt like he was a failure failure losing loved ones like Like low self-esteem depressed.

There's so many things and so many different emotions and and and experiences that can make you feel that You are broken but I guess what would be beneficial for our listeners is knowing that you've gone through something like that And you're coming through the other end and there are ways that you can heal from it So what obviously one of them I guess is therapy and and being able to share those Those experiences so that you can get help from other people but is there any other Things that maybe you do for yourself like you've done at home or you may meditate or whatever it is that Has helped you to kind of heal?

Yeah, so I would just say that meditation is hard for me I have a very active mind and a very um, and calming down That mind is quite tricky, so I find that difficult, but they're all connected the mind the body and the spirit, right and You're not taking care of your mind One of the other to suffer in a way not taking care of your body What the mind of the spirit suffer not taking care of your spirit everything suffers?

So I got back into the body I started getting back into kind of getting physical You know yoga the running gym Really tapping into Tapping into myself really kind of feeling is that one of the key things of it you have that anxiety is kind of remembering Remembering that you're real So feeling yourself be like hey, this is this is reality This is here sort of thing but getting into the body getting stronger getting a strong body in order to kind of build a stronger Mentality and mindset Developing your spirituality You know affirmations self-reflective journaling Prayer but literally just prayer man Yeah, it's just a multitude of things but what worked for me was getting into the body getting into my spirituality and really understanding the social aspect of my life And just developing on from that Developing on from that and just trying to be again trying to become the best possible version of myself That's what we're here for man beautiful.

All right, Craig Craig. Let's let's go into yours Let's not waste too much time go into your voice note, and then we'll follow suit man.

We'll follow up the conversation healing broken men self-love and self-empowerment I Really can't imagine or think about when I've ever been like Broken to a point where I could actually remember it Maybe hurt for like a very short amount of time or for like less than a day Don't know maybe I had an argument in my parent But then it didn't take too long to get back to it There was only one time which was more my fault, but I didn't feel broken.

I just felt like it's just gonna take time to Fix what I did in a sense, but I've never felt broken Like actually down in the dumps Depressed or anything like that. I've actually had a lot of self-belief in myself from since I was young and I always thought something I was always capable or enough or I don't know. I just To me life is always gonna be like a great life.

I've never thought that life was gonna be rubbish ever And I've always believed in myself in the way of Knowing that if I want it enough, I know I could do it Yeah, sometimes you might quickly say oh, no, I don't really I don't think I'm not gonna be able to do that Whatever, but I know that if I put my mind to anything I would definitely do it In the sense of self-love, I don't think I've ever really hated myself or Hated like parts of myself or anything.

I've actually really just believed that I'm generally just a good person a Really self good belief in myself believe in my life that it's gonna be great and That feeling just actually got stronger and stronger as I became an adult I would just believe that the more I have control or responsibility of my life Then the best the better it can be or the best it can be because that means if I have to control over it if I put loads of effort and do the right things make the right choices then Things will turn out the way I need to and if I don't then that was on me.

So Yeah, I think I have a weird complex around Ever feeling broken. I've never actually felt broken and in sense of relationships.

I've never been heartbroken before either So I think my self belief in myself was always really sky-high Which I guess in turn means that I always felt empowered and then myself love Yeah, I would always put myself in environments where I feel appreciated I feel I'm happy and it's always like good vibes and if I ever had friendships or even work environments or anything that would just wasn't that wasn't in line of good vibes or Feeling good or at the end of the day.

I felt better or anything like that.

Then I would cut it away If it was ever like you have off days or you have off conversations But if it was ever consistent then it didn't belong in my life anymore and that was how that was my stand about it So I think I guess I have quite a unique stand about it I don't think I ever felt in a way that My life would ever be bad or this is it like you ever in a rut and feel like oh This is how it's gonna be.

I'm gonna have to accept this even jobs when jobs didn't go my way For a long period of time then I'll just switch job And I knew I could do it.

So Yeah, sorry really we're not a tangent but Yeah, I really have had a lot of self-belief in myself from the get-go And even when things get really tough, I always say well, it must be tough because that means I'm gonna grow into something even better Because I've never grown in comfort.

I've only grown from uncomfortability So once you step out your comfort zone, that's usually when they're really gonna start growing even more So I've accepted a lot of challenges as well Even now I would say I'm probably in a challenging place.

I'm still just pushing through and believing I'm growing and being grateful So yeah I guess for many people Hearing you say that is is gonna be like oh really so he's positive like all the time and we know that's not the case But I think that from what you've said, it's a bit of a testament to your character that You always kind of see the silver lining and I guess Going back to something that Alex mentioned as he grew from his his kind of moment where he felt he had a breakdown is that It's definitely a mindset it's definitely how you perceive your Circumstances and how you adapt how you change how you you move with what's happening around you so that They're not in control of you.

You're in control at all times And I guess as I said, it is a bit of a unique perspective to have that from such a young age You said you've been like that all your life So, I guess the question is Where do you think that came from?

I Believe it would be my parents and my childhood That's definitely the strongest and I think most of our attributes are grown from an age that you couldn't even remember First say but it will warp you maybe as young as like less than 10 years old or onwards And as I've made through school probably the earliest times I could really remember of my parents kind of bigging me up Is that they never really thought I was gonna do bad in school?

So they always fought the best but more so in the sense of if I did do bad It wasn't obviously there's a punishment to an extent of not beats or anything But you wouldn't get what you're supposed to be what you wanted in a sense But they would always say like my excuse to be like, yeah, but yeah, but then man They also got the same thing like they got the same grade as me They said yeah, but is there one person in the class who got an A is there one?

I'll be like, yeah, this one like is a buffet. He's a buffet in it. So Like but there's one though, right?

So you wanted to be like everybody else but there was one person who could do this I means the school did everything they're supposed to do and you wasn't that person He said you're not supposed to follow other people You're there to be yourself and be the best that you can be and that was Repeated over and over and over and over and it never took came up.

It was never a case that I was just like Because of that I meant that my ability Can always be the best it can it can be possibly and yes, you can make mistakes But even when I did make mistakes, then it can still be the best like, you know what?

You didn't do too well, but you can do better so that's Instilled in me and that's what I remember when I think back to my school my childhood and then when it went into school stuff I'm not school stuff like university and work and that they they weren't necessarily into the whole techie and electric electronics But they always kind of just support whatever decision I made need it be from I think they recently told me about the time When I went to go to a certain primary school They wanted me to go to primary school because it would accelerate me into the top secondary school which was sent once and I said I actually told him as a Kid They told me I told him as a kid The school isn't the person that makes the student the student makes the school and I said as a kid and I said I don't want to change primary schools.

I believe I can do great as I am here my On my contrast my 20s were my best as I got older every single day became better for me Why because I gained more responsibility of my life. There was no more school.

No more Roots to take nobody can tell me what I could do when I go to work I can set my pay with my pay If I say that I want to go for a job that I believe I can earn 25,000 then I can earn 35,000 that I can earn 50,000 I'm gonna go for it And I remember doing and I kept doing it and I just said that if I work it didn't matter what the papers said Hey managers need about six or seven years I said, but you don't know about a person that works 60 hours per week though Do you you don't know me?

So that's all I knew if somebody is in the words getting paid more than I get paid I can go for it. And that was the belief. That's it.

That's the my travel I went through and it just kept going Then challenges come along because I would say that in the first few years it was a very smooth Challenge came on first challenge Reality in work wise was the first time I got paid redundant But then they were gonna pay me three months worth of money and I said I got made redundant and my parents are leaving the country and I said Well, this is looking quite sweet.

So I can now choose what I want to do I'll say so we're gonna do Craig and I said we've always made it work at the end of the day So go for more so I found another job and I didn't even I didn't hesitate I never had one bit of doubt Basically, my belief is if God put me on this earth He never put me on this earth to do to be anything but less than great. I Don't care how bad it is.

I don't care how sad it seems He'd never put us here to be less than great So if I don't find the perspective or the mindset I need to make this a silver lining Then I need to give myself time and figure it out Because I'm either here to win or learn how to win and that was it And that's how I live my life like moving forward and as that is child from a kid But I believe it was all instilled in me from my parents as to how they treated me when I was at school When I failed they never treat them It was always a bringing me back back up and obviously when I did well I got the stuff that I wanted because I earned it.

I think the Bit that kind of resonated and clicked with me when you was mentioning that is it it it came from your parents?

and the reason why that kind of clicked with me is because a lot of what I've heard is that For you to almost become and this can be controversial but for you to become a broken man It's question them questionable whether you was actually born that way and the reason why it's it's said like that is because It can be instilled from what your parents teach you There is a bit of controversy in that but yeah Alex.

I know you won't say so So have you heard of a theory called attachment theory? Yeah Expand There are three attachments Typically just to keep it simple.

It's avoidant Secure and anxious and it all depend and it always develops from your relationship with your primary caregiver from a child essentially Those are those can be disrupted throughout your childhood adolescence and so on so forth Just from what you've said to run what you said in that in in your piece Craig It was very interesting that you said that even when you've when you failed you were brought back up and When you succeeded you were awarded So You were always you weren't shielded You went over from what you're saying anyway from what I'm imagining what you're saying.

You went overprotected. You went over Anything you weren't under anything either.

So you were kind of like If you didn't do well, you knew that it wouldn't be a great situation, but you knew that it wouldn't be a demoralizing one The disruptions that you had so what that does then it just builds up a character in you, you know and as I say and I thought like it's very definitely a testament to your Kind of parents and the way that they kind of their perspective on how You grow as well And then and then once that once they left you to kind of do your own thing You kind of went you took that and that's and that is the and that is an interesting kind of Look at it, which is why when you said about when Simon you said about broken when you're born that way or what not I don't think we are ever born broken We are we are people who are Who are born of a set of experiences and environments?

And our personality is molded to is molded within those environments So yeah, that's just basically Basically what it is, you know, that's the way I so that's the way I think I think that that came from I guess The the and you're right. No, you're right So I guess what I'd say in response to that and what a lot of people would I guess would think about is essentially you You could be Considered to be born broken.

We're just saying quotation marks because of The the things that are put on you by your parents whether it's even you're born into a household where your father isn't around You feel that you're broken inside because you don't have what other people have or you don't have Your poor you don't have a home to live under you don't have your homeless or something like you may be born into those circumstances where You feel broken because you're not you don't have what you I guess would expect to have To be broken you have to have been whole at one point You know, if they forgot to use the word broken as I said, I'm not hugely With that, but if you you know, you had to be whole at one point So if you grew up without a parent there You can't be broken Really because it's like the environment probably is and the emotion an emotional kind of imbalance probably is But you as a person can't be does that does that make any sense?

because you because you are you are a whole person and It's just your set of environments and the kind of things that are around you have created That part of you rather than it being like, you know Rather than it being you know, rather than that part of you being snapped out of you That's why it comes down to the mindset.

Yeah, that's why it comes down to the mindset What we're talking about with Craig is the mindset you have so what I think around that For both of your points is that yeah What? Alex is saying is that you're already whole if he was born in poverty Then technically you wouldn't be broken because of poverty because you was ready. That's all you knew But what ends up happening is the transition as a child?

Through your childhood, there's two sides There's two things that can happen one of them is when you get exposed to the world the world is one gonna tell you Who you should or shouldn't be or tell you one second your poor by the way. Did you not know your poor?

that's one of them before that is times of Times when what addicts picked up was the fact that I was I was supported But in both causes in both times when I failed or perceived failed and succeeded And as a kid the time is when you have negative enforcement That is when it starts to break you That's when you start to get pieces taken out of you because then you start to think okay, let's say a kid.

I Don't know they do something.

That's not right there You get you get punished so they can for safety But when a kid is punished for something that is actually a good thing But I don't know the adult doesn't perceive it that way The child starts to it starts to take away from the kid and they start to lose confidence in themselves slowly slowly slowly Then they get chucked out into worlds Then you get told that you're poor and then you get told about how many things that you can't do because Your parents taught you that you wasn't supposed to do this.

So now you're not empowered or enforced.

You're now This thing that you're like, okay So my parents say no and then the world is telling me even worse things That's enforcing what they kind of said or maybe can make it even worse now you're entering this world as a not a full person So my so when I like listen to a lot of people's stories a lot of it comes from a child like their childhood But funny enough not everybody is it because of their childhood that it happens So because some people have great parents that maybe they had the same enforcement as I did But then if the world they didn't adapt well to the world Then that could have caused a problem as well For example when the world looked at me other than the fact I was a black man I didn't necessarily have a bad life like I had a good life But let's say that you took me and put me in a poor environment and then came out into the world and I look poor Then maybe I would have been completely different I would have been a completely different aspect depend on how my mindset would have been able to adapt to it so there's a there's a few there's a few yeah, there's a few elements, how is the how does the The parent really enforce some of the things that the kid goes through in their life need it be school or Relationships with friends or how they how do they really support these different things?

What is their contribution and in that that contribution will now be imprinted on the kid? And then when you go into adulthood, how well do you as adapt? Do you find your space in the world or do you always feel out of place? That's the key part about it Do you find your place in the world because I found my place Pretty easily.

I didn't I've never really gone from crazy for parts of racism I just believe if he was a hard worker You're gonna find a place in the world and you're gonna click and you're gonna go for it But then maybe on Alex's side, he was a hard worker He still did all the stuff that he needs to do to be in the positions and it wasn't the right enforcement I've had to be honest when I first like my jobs I was rejected for my first two jobs and then my third job I got it and then in my head I said them two jobs weren't even for me because they were dead anyway That's how I said it in my head So I took a different job.

The third job is my third try and that and I just accepted yet This is what I was supposed to be anyway now Alex on a different side He may have been he was rejected for one of other things to tell you he had to go to Scotland and he's like wow This is a punishment Like I shouldn't be here. Is this cuz I'm not good enough kind of thing and I would have gone to Scotland said This is way better about kill it out here.

I'm gonna show these people. I'm gonna take over Scotland and take over England It is about and that's what the healing is It's coming back to self and understanding What you is and I'm figuring out what you need to learn when you need to learn it.

I Just wasn't learning them damn lessons I just wasn't I was I was I was taking I was just taking a beatings every time because you know Do you know the key words Alex it was there's the part about Now that he wasn't maybe parented the way he needed to be he had to now parent himself And this is where we are now So a lot of stuff when you go through healing is actually a lot of alone time Like there was a therapist that's gonna help you sort your thoughts out and put things in order But then most of the time is spent on your own Absolutely, you are with yourself 24 7 Yeah, if you do not like yourself then it's peak so you better just get to know Figure out I iron out and all and all them thing there, but you're right.

It's the parenting to self parenting It's coming back to self and it's really understanding where you're at with that I think you made the point as well Actually Alex when you were talking about when you had that panic attack and how your friend actually calmed you down What they did in that in that point is actually made you self-aware Because they was obviously giving you those questions. Okay, who are you?

Where are you? What can you see you became more self-aware and That actually centered yourself and centered your thoughts nothing even when we're looking back at What can we do if we feel in any situation that we are broken? How do we heal from that because that's what we're talking about is Self-awareness is self love is self forgiveness and all of the things that we've already mentioned.

It's just about self-parenting and being very conscious of you who you are what you want and How to get that and what you want to do to make yourself happy and I think that's that's the key in itself Yeah, that's a I like I like Kind of evaluation, I think it was a It's a very interesting part because a lot of people funny enough, you know when I hear people go through this is a part I'm gonna shares.

I had a lot of people go through like really tough relationships, right? And do you know when they go for a point when they go for like a breakup? It's breakup time like they decided this is me. It's done in me I'm very empathetic like I'm being I'm trying to be caring and comforting But in the other side of me, I'm like, this is absolutely amazing.

They're heartbroken like This is my new head is they're broken and they've decided to end it as well Why because you're in such a bad position. You will stop pleasing others You know heartbreak of relationships.

Most people stop pleasing others stop taking BS from people Stop a lot of things and now they're with themselves and they're gonna start self-pleasing Because a lot of bad relationships of people taking a lot of BS is actually too much of people pleasing and very a lot of Sacrificing on who they are and that's why I love stuff like that because I look at people There's so many different stories a bit different things people going through and then when but when they've and it's hard when they're going through It and they haven't made a decision.

I'm gonna change it It's really hard because you're like, can you just decide please just decide but when they have decided It is time to change and they cut things off I'm like all this about being this about be a caterpillar into into a whole butterfly right now, man It's crazy. I mean, I love it because I know how that's how I think That's how I'll see I will break that down. I'll be like it's time.

It's my time And that's what I like to see for other people But that process is required like we look at we could go for Alex and my kind of journey and we'll say well Which one is is the right journey? Which one would it be better for him to be? No, there's not one or the other We are very dynamic people. We are dynamic living He's he's his journey is required.

My journey is required the different the different outlooks is and then when you can accept This is the part when you can accept that your journey if it has happened and you are still alive today that it was required You would then be able to move forward because you know what's happening a lot of people on this kind of they wanted this middle They're they're here a Lot of people want this to change everything that was in their past.

They want it to change so they can innovate, right?

But if they just say that this was acceptable Then they can start here or stop here and they can go But what's the happen is that they are holding on to these anchors that they need to change that you can't change the past You just need to accept that if I'm here breathing I have an opportunity and I could that means this this past is a part of me now and I'm gonna go I'm gonna innovate but the world keeps telling us things that say that now you should have never gone for that I should have never been you that should have never been that way You should have always that you should have done that someone might turn cold turn around to Alex and say no I'm a when you were Scotland you should have done it this way and this is my brother.

It's done I can't I'm saying and acceptance is that is the key? Like you just I mean once you've got to figure that but that part out else You're just gonna be in a consistent consistent turmoil You know, I mean Craig you're right, you know, you're actually right and just thinking because obviously we've all I guess we've all been through breakups in it and I'm even in a situation now where I've got to be honest.

I feel that in some respects.

I am broken being in a relationship and And Feeling like you you need to give so much to the relationship where it gets at a point where you don't really have that much to give to yourself and Then you're you're kind of struggling you're in this internal battle of trying to work on a relationship trying to please the other person But not really pleasing yourself and even a quote or something.

I've heard I can't remember who said it I don't it might have even been like Will Smith or someone Where it says a relationship isn't about You having a responsibility of making the other person happy the perfect relationship I guess in the sense is having one person that's wholly happy the other person that's wholly happy and then you're happy together Rather than it being well, I'm not quite happy But I want to be in this relationship to be happy and you're expecting that you're gonna gain that happiness from the other person When really and truly the happiness needs to come from you first and that's what blossoms into a beautiful relationship So I'm at that stage.

I'm at a stage.

I'm working on it So I I would even consider myself in many respects to still be healing from the cracks within myself Which is about just again finding yourself and finding what works for you in a sense And the funny thing, you know the killer part about it I think a lot of people have this realization that they need to self-heal or they need to find themselves But what they're scared of is that when they you know If you ever had like a good a good phone, right and you go to the car phone warehouse and they say yeah You got an upgrade and they're like and you're thinking oh, you know the first time you ever got upgrades Are they gonna take this phone and then I'm gonna have to get the new one and you want it to keep both And thankfully in the normal world we get to keep the old phone and we get the new phone, right But in the world of us, you don't get to keep the old phone So when you become the new person that you're expecting that you need to be you will have to let go of certain friends You have to let go of certain relationships You have to get go certain jobs or situations or things that you want and you say no But some of these friends are called or can I keep them is that yeah, but a bit toxic sometimes right or that relationship?

But there's the good parts, right? You can't get both but the job is good that the pay is way high like 50k or whatever it is Yeah, but the boss is like this demoralizes. Let it go. You gotta let go and that's the hardest part It's the anchors. It's not the people not discovering it.

It's the God show me a sign my boy I gave you a sign here You calling me for a sign I've given you more signs I slept in your face there Do you know I didn't know the way I looked at it as well, right because I was in some I was in a series of really Really bad friendships here and I always do it like this I was like when God says to you leave the place and you don't listen and you'll give you three chances and the third chance He's dashing you out Worst possible way You know full of shame full of anger full of like all of this different stuff because you weren't Listening you didn't pick up on the vibe that was being given to you Yeah, and this is what and this is what and that's why I agree with what you're saying Like it's so funny when you speak because it's like what looking into just a mirror sometimes That's why I wanted to just like play church church piano behind you Speaking I get like yes faster.

Yes. Yes. Yes, and they start standing up at the end of it. Yes But yeah, it's about letting go like what you said definitely letting go of it If it has happened or is happening it is required Most of our pain was it was it we talked about this before Alex Most of our pain is in the in our imagination.

No is in our imagination not in the reality Yeah, the reality is you're alive you're breathing you got you got this you got this you got you got a ton of things to Be grateful for but the imagination is you want it to be different The brain is the brain.

Yeah rain lies First question is and this is to open up the floor so Alex you can jump in as well Is it fair to say that until you can heal yourself you run the risk of always creating toxic relationships It's fair to say that yeah, but it's not an excuse I were You know some people don't some people don't go okay example, have you guys watched Forrest Gump?

Yeah, yep Craig I won't spoil it if you're watching it, but I'd say watch that I feel like I feel like you would love that film. Honestly, just knowing who you are Anyway Forrest Gump, he has a love interest a love interest Jenny Jenny has a series of really really traumatic experiences throughout her life and Yes, and Forrest was the most secure man There for every single point of her life that was happening, right?

She pulled what she was due to her experiences due to her early experiences and stuff that she was growing that she had when She was growing up.

She pulled in a lot of Toxic relationships with a lot of toxic experiences to her because that's what she was used to Until she got to a stage until she got to a point It's like exactly what Craig was saying about the behind you if you want to go up, you know You don't want to bring you know when you're doing diagrams and things but You know, I mean like, you know when you don't know you want to move on but you carry on the stuff behind you And once you let that stuff go and really kind of Heal from that You start to invite You start to create space for yourself in a new space to allow for the relationships that you want They allow for the relationship that you desire allow for the people that you want in your life to come to you but when that's blocked up with Resentment with anger with hate with self-hate with lack of self-compassion with lack of self-love all of that stuff And that's all blocked up there.

You are inadvertently putting out signals to attract that to you. So yeah, I Do you think it's fair to say that?

Because there's I guess there's two sides because the self-awareness self-awareness again is a process Self-healing is a process again and even at letting go sometimes it's a decision But it could be a build-up of a lot of things to make that decision Now the question was more leading to in my opinion probably more leading to do you have to put your life on pause while You're healing in a sense.

Do you have to put your? Your kind of relationships that you're gonna have with people on pause until you feel that you're healed and the reason why I like to I said it in this way is because I know a lot of people who have Almost said they do not deserve to be in a relationship or have certain friends because they don't believe they enough yet Now the funny thing is that I go back to the same thing.

I said Everything is necessary So sometimes a person should put themselves in a situation where there's a really good friend a really good person that they want in Their life and it will encourage it if they mess it up It wasn't it needed to happen but then them feeling so bad about them messing it up because of something that they haven't healed from will encourage them to want to Change and it goes it's like a cycle it will happen and you'll go through different friends and different relationships Sometimes and different colleagues or whatever and you'll go in a cycle until you finally decide enough And I couldn't and the reason and the reason why I'm gonna say this to people is because some people really right now believe That they are in this position where they're broken or they need to heal and they feel like they're not enough I'm gonna tell you you are enough you do deserve to live and I want you to live as hard as possible and When you need to change it will happen and the things around you that are going that come into a life was there for you the things that leave your life wasn't for you and What you what you need to go for you have to go through it and you've already gone through it So keep doing it and that's why that's my best answer to that because I believe that the person saying is it fair to Because they're gonna lead to a question that will basically be like well If that's the case that you know, because the person remember it's perspective right for me to you Simon I know you Simon if you suddenly say Craig, you know what I'm broken man.

I ain't going to no relationships I do nothing with nobody until I fix this I say no man Simon It was you just it was just maybe the wrong person. It was the wrong situation It was the wrong time in your life to keep living keep doing the same things you're doing But that's my perspective of you, but your perspective of yourself might be like 10 years.

I'm gonna give it 10 years You understand so I want I want people to be aware. Just keep living and keep trying your hardest is always enough I'm in a struggling relationship with someone who finds it very difficult to open up. I Know he's got a past and has been through a lot, but doesn't share much with me How do I manage being with someone who still has a lot of healing to do?

In any relationship any situation you're in your main priority is you Your main priority is you so if you're in a relationship and this person is going through healing going through the processes and you still are Happy together, etc let them go through if they're healing or their processes is taking away from you and Now you are feeling like you are becoming less as the days or months go on You better take a standstill on something now.

This is gonna be a leave-in situation, but I like to give it more chances they are Couples counseling there's even maybe Finding ways that you can just go and Google people Google more about shopping than they do about how to heal their relationships Go on Google. How do I talk to my partner more?

There's people that do maybe like they do letters to each other They do like having sit-down discussions like actual date nights where they have a discussion about how is the week going? How is what did you like and dislike? What how could I be a better partner? Nobody's answer the question How could I be a better partner to you?

So I think in my opinion if it's taking away from you while your partner is healing Then you need to make a change something needs to be they can take us make a standstill where you do something Actively that's going to improve it or make it go in the right direction If it goes too far when you've tried things Effort is is blown or you seem that to find yourself just you're just not the same person You're less than you was when you first got into the relationship Then I say is you need to just it's gotta go.

Okay, just off the back of that Craig absolutely correct. I agree with your perspective However, I would also add that What is it that you what like so because you have to remember like it's not always it's not always going to be Straight up like no one's not wasn't a come to the relationship always vulnerable.

You know what I'm saying and Sometimes we enter into these things Thinking and feeling like we are in a particular space When really we are kind of reflecting and projecting the things that are insecurities onto the other person so I Would say that's an interrogation that needs to happen Because if that's the case if that if if you know that you're good you know that you're good and you know that he definitely has something wrong with him or Not wanting to say or something that is bothering him or whatever He's not saying it to you then I'd say head down the path and what Craig said But if not, I would say really investigate whether it's whether it's you and what you're thinking About There's a lot of stuff that we kind of shit that we bring up when we come into our interpersonal relationships and a lot of times A lot of the times it's our own stuff that we are bringing up Yeah, by way of us thinking it's the other person he might just be cool He's not he's not both hit the nail on the head man.

I think he's I would yeah Because it definitely does come down to perspective but just agreeing with and just reiterating that point like I think the burden of Healing someone is not on you It's not your responsibility to fix the other person if they have healing to do is you I guess if you're in a relationship Your role would be to support Your role would be to love what?

Them in order for them to heal it's about self-awareness and it's about self-healing and as Craig as you already said as well You kind of touched on it is Don't let it get to the point where it becomes toxic to you And do you have the strength to carry that if it is a deep thing?

And a lot of people can sense the people that they can share to and the people they can't So if that person feels that they can't share that Or not able to share that I said address whether you have that whether you feel like you have the ability to carry that That's a lot of a lot of stuff and whether you feel like you should that reminds me a bit of like to give you something quite personal my like past with some of my past relationships where as I've left.

I realized that they were probably going through a healing process or going through something and I Would at some time I used to like I like taking response I like taking responsibility in a kind of a How can I say being I want to be in control So if I say if I blame somebody like a relationship or blame a friend for something happening Then I then I lose power because that means I blame them so I don't have the power over it So when I in like my relationships previous relationships, I reflect on them.

I used to say to myself Or say now if they couldn't heal or Talk to me about certain things while I was in the relationship with them Then I didn't create the space or the surety to make them feel that they could do that. I Never blame them and say oh it's because of them and they did this and they they were just yeah They were terrible partner.

I used to say to myself I was basically not the right person to create that space or make them feel secure enough to want to Open up to me.

That's what I would prefer to say So I don't I could I don't like to I My ego is probably the worst thing because my your ego is what makes you think I was all on them It was all them that did this and in reality you got those there's the case where actually if you got to a point where Your relationship became toxic There was probably a hell of a red flags where your ego was living by thinking that they should have become an expectation that you wanted but in reality They are who they are they came to you as they are and You were supposed to accept it because a relationship is not companionship and because you're gonna get married and do all these balloons No, a relationship is you Actually choosing the person that is right in front of you Not filling a silhouette that you want to say this person's gonna fit right in there and then they're like, oh You know when you got the the square blocks on the circle and the circle holes This person is to shape off the edges and they can fit right now.

It doesn't work that way So don't live by your expectation of it. That's why when Alex mentioned the part about Like what you're saying that they need healing but who are you to say that they needed healing or is it time yet?

Or so we say I think it's more case that the person is focused on our expectation Like oh my partner should probably be this person by now or they should be this person to me or they should be able to Talk about this but you accepted them for who they are today if they become better Then great you grew together But if they are your your question you have to ask yourself is if this person does not change for five to ten years or more Would I be able to save this person could I cope could I get could I still thrive and if I cannot Then you gotta leave and it's not up to them to change.

It's up to you to make the decision to leave Thank you, man. Thank you for sharing. Yes, okay Unfortunately, we've got a cool time on this man. It's been a really powerful conversation, but we gotta wrap it up man So obviously for you guys that have sent in those questions, thank you so much Make sure that you guys keep Engaging with us.

Obviously this platform isn't just about us talking to you we want you guys to get involved ask questions continue the conversation and Open up to us about your views and your experiences So obviously if you've enjoyed this podcast and you want something you want to do something to help us out Then please consider liking sharing and remember to follow us at talking to my force to stay up to date with all of our content Guys, thank you so much Alex.

Thank you so much And thank you guys for listening man