SPECIAL: This Is Why We Celebrate Our Fathers!

Brother it is hard. He's doing a seven days working. Well, yeah when he comes home He's the dad that you need him to be that requires a lot of energy You may be starting at 7 a.m.

Finishing at 9 p.m And then to come home play with your child read them a bedtime story when all you're thinking about is I'm so shattered and I Wake up early tomorrow to do the same thing again This is talking to my food Welcome everybody to talking to my thoughts the podcaster we have open honest and raw conversations But with a twist now today is a bit of a father's day special Obviously, we usually have a session where we invite our guests in go through some pre-records and talk a little bit more about What's on our mind about a particular topic?

But for today because of obviously the events that are taking place today with fatherhood and Father's Day We've done the right thing. We've invited our dads on to have a very special conversation So we know we normally say we have a special guest, but these are extra special guests So pops uncle welcome by welcome. Welcome. Welcome.

Thank you for joining us Yes, yes, yes, so Obviously for myself and Craig, I guess we just want to kick off the conversation with first of all a little bit of an appreciation Not just because it's Father's Day But just because you're our dads and obviously the things that you've done for us Obviously without you in our lives, we wouldn't be the same people.

So I just want to say pops obviously Thank you for being there. Thank you for supporting me through everything. You've obviously been there through thick and thin You've guided me in so many different ways and obviously Father's Day is a Particular time just to share some love and obviously for myself, I just want to say as your son, I love you I appreciate you and I respect you as a man as well.

So thank you Firstly to start with that dad. I love you You there's no place or time that you and mum haven't been in my life to always support every single decision I've made every single thing I want to do every path I've wanted to take you've never said that You wouldn't allow me to do it or Not support me along the way. So I'll definitely like to say a massive.

Thank you there and more importantly just thank you for being you as well Which allowed me to be free you was always Strong but always honest at the same time. There was never a case that you was like, okay I'm gonna I'm not well, I'm gonna hide something from you or anything.

It's never been that case So he's been you've been strong but honest at the same time so I appreciate the support and I'm literally the person who I am today because of You and mom along the whole way. So yeah, just a massive. Thank you. And I hope you enjoy the father's day.

That's to come Yes, so obviously we we want to have a little bit of a discussion today about Fatherhood, I guess it's a perfect time to obviously speak about that And again, this is just just a conversation where we can open up as much as we can about our lives And and speak about obviously our relationships as father and son as well I guess the first first question that I can naturally transition into is for both of you guys anyone can kind of kick off is what does First of all, what does father's day mean to you?

What does that even mean like just obviously father's day is is one day in the year where we do celebrate dads But obviously you're a dad 24 7 everyone's a dad 24 7 the moment you have kids You're always a dad. So I guess in particular just reflecting on this day in particular. What is that? What does that mean to you guys?

well, I'll say like The day father's day is like for you to remember When you first started your family from your first kid Yeah, that's coming along.

You're already a father already with your first one But it's like a day where you remember to be proud of what the human you brought into this earth where you have to guide them and protect them until Well, you can't again when you pass the way I don't think like kids your kids as a father or mother would say when you're about 21 or 22 You have not my responsibility again.

We always Have Be there for you for your sisters your brothers anybody you have to be there So the day father's day that should remind all fathers of what you brought this child on earth to do So we all do it together like a family Well, I would agree with that 100% But the first and foremost before I continue what I would love to say and need to say is that You know, I need to show love and respect to the mothers out there, you know the mother of my children Because if it wasn't for her then I pull myself a father.

I would not be a father today So I respect to my wife and my mother of my children You know fatherhood itself for sure Being a father is is a full-time job.

You you you can't switch off As much as sometimes you think we'd love to say look, give me a break, you know I'm tired I need to rest But in saying that When father's day come along that's something I love to do I I Switch off when it comes to my responsibilities to a certain degree as a father because it's a day that I want to sit back.

I want to relax and I want to absorb all the the love It's not about the gifts base about the the recognition that's shown from my children and It's it's not a thing where I'm looking for presence. I'm just looking for acknowledgments and for sure I've received that Every year up to now and if that ever changes then there's problems That's a warning that's a full warning Everyone to be aware.

I'm the only one who's not a father Keep up to know so it's very it's beautiful to hear as well And I guess without without the kind of leaving you out Simon the young whippersnapper What's the other day like for you in that sense for me I guess it it's very similar to be honest, it's all about the love the appreciation The acknowledgement as we've touched on I think that's kind of what it's about because yeah throughout the year You still do receive that love from your kids anyway, like the moments of interactions that you have with them There's always love between you two or between you three or however many kids you've got but I think it's just it's a nice time to Almost make a bit of a statement not to not to the rest of the world to say oh, yeah Look, I'm showing everybody I love my dad and blah blah blah.

Well, it's like just to show on that day in particular Yes, I've shown you love throughout the year But this is the time that I can make it ever more apparent to you or ever more clear to you Some people think oh my god, it's Father's Day or it's Mother's Day. I need to get all of these gifts I need to like kind of I need to outdo my siblings or so, you know I need to make sure I've done better than I did last year.

It's like well, you just need to show love That's it.

That can be as simple as just a couple of words and that's what it means to me It's like that's what I would appreciate and nice for me a card Something that's even like because my kids are still young like most of the cards they give to me are like handmade and that's even more That special because they've taken effort to just write something draw some pictures be creative stick and it's just it just means It just means a lot.

So yeah, that's that's Father's Day for me. Is this is just about just getting a bit of love and appreciation That's cool, that sounds good all these are like make it he's not kind of show I think nobody talks about this what fathers kind of expect or they appreciate about it in a sense It's always that Father's Day go out to eat and etc.

But you guys are actually more about the words the acts of service the Just the appreciation that acknowledgement as well, which is really really powerful So I'm glad to kind of hear that especially from my part not being a father yet It's just good to hear what it means to you guys as well. So I guess this is a great transition.

I am something I'm gonna dive right into this interesting question here is What was Father's Day like with your father's so both like you and Uncle what was Father's Day like with your father's because I know that generations can change And maybe you guys have chosen different ways to appreciate or appreciate us as well down to how you was Appreciate it.

So I guess anyone could start on that Well, I would like to come in there For me my father's day For me It wasn't clear cuts when it comes to father figure My father wasn't around Soon because he was in a different relationship and As much as I knew who he was and where he was there was that distance which Made a difference when it comes to Having a father and son relationship, you know, it was a it was an occasional thing that I would visit him and As much as I would see him he would see me There still wasn't that relationship now later on in life in my early teens I I had a stepfather who's still around and thank God for that and As much as he was there doing his bit as as a man more so first of all foremost We didn't have that relationship as father and son and I could say maybe I I missed out on that relationship so Then saying that you know, there was love within the family He never done me anything wrong.

He made sure there was food in the table, you know, we had clothes on our back bills were paid You know the basics was there but the love and the closeness wasn't so What I did have Was almost a substitute. I Had what I would say Three mothers my biological mother And two aunties You know, so I was raised by three mothers And the coast I got to a father was an uncle Who?

Had his own children, but being an uncle You know, we would go to the pub you would have some chats And that was very nice But When I feel and I look back what what I felt a father should be Unfortunately, I didn't have that Really appreciate that you sharing that seriously that's a that's a big deal and Reason why I wanted to ask was because it's always interesting to see if a person simply replicated what they learned or did they Realize they didn't get it and they said I want to Give it to the next person the next set that I bring into the world because I believe that's what they deserve And that's exactly what you did and plus you you knew the one thing you did know if it was the fatherhood was love Announce for your three your your the mothers.

So that's perfect. Thank you for sharing that speak That's a big deal. And I guess I guess you know, right?

I would say I Had a full-time dad Your your Situation I won't say it's bad But I say you you might be learning and it makes you make us grow up with different Difficulties be I've been like if I had a full-time dad, but I'll tell you from young age to about say 18 I hated by that Because it's not that he was a bad man or bad dad Because of what I wanted from youth life from school time when I see that's other dads and Sons do together in in that's in their generation.

I didn't have that kind of thing I was trying to be there all the time like to see well Oh, do my dad love me and thing like that because I used to be used to take me everywhere he go But I think it's just for protection. He protected me all that time, but with Don't see it like that We see it like if our dad hated us from the time.

I reached 18 going up to 19 to 20 Then you start realizing when you see other people that you grown up with and you think they had it a better life With their parents, but it's like you see like you maybe had a better life yourself because your dad protected you My dad used to beat me. Yes, if I do something wrong, he'd give me licks.

Yes No problem, that's I would say that's what that's Apple is to protect the child put them on the straight and narrow on the right path for the future We look at it as like back. We will see battered children But Now I have a kid now.

I Realized that He taught me how to be a father He taught me how to be a father So in our generation, we thought we bring our children up in a different kind of way We didn't have to beat them. We talked to them. They listen In my father's generation, maybe did we didn't have that family together to stay talk to each other Although he took me everywhere not one place.

My father would have go like on a Sunday or Saturday and he'll not take me. I Was the closest one in my whole family? With him But now I realized that he taught me how to be a father how to bring Krieger To be respectable and I'm proud to see the money turn up if my father's still alive and saw him He would be proud of him I'm proud of what he turned out. I think like I'm doing arms.

I'll give my Thank you That's beautiful so um, yeah, no, it's it's always good to you gotta give yourself props on time.

So yeah, there's nothing Okay, so okay I want to delve a little bit deep into a couple of questions actually, so the first question I would want to ask is Basically your experiences of becoming a dad for the first time the moment your partner Whether it was your wife at the time Said I'm pregnant What was and again because we're looking at it from different generations different times Social like the constructs were different in that situation at the age you was that When you first realized I'm gonna be a dad What was that experience like what was be truthful be truthful as much as you can Okay, um with me when Johnny stole me that he's pregnant Seriously, I said to myself hell no But afterwards I is is some house something actually kicks in Something kicks in because it it actually lasts is for about 24 to 48 hours thinking of What you happen what you do what my house most of you know what my parents gonna see what your parents gonna see and the friends like that But when I I was up here on holiday, and I'm thinking That's a that's a that's a hard thing to think of you know And I'm thinking okay after 14.

I'll say all right, maybe I could do that You know and I'm thinking well On the other hand what to do how to do it how to sell my parents how to do you know You have to go through all the things as your first kid to how that does my my hardest part about it but after say Three four weeks when it all come into you and the talk going and the family getting to know I was all right with it I was all right with it I'm thinking well you make up your mind.

Oh, yeah, because hey I was on holiday Then I said, yeah, I have to go back to nusha, you know, because I can't overstay I spent four months.

I went back to the nusha tell my dad and the first day I tell my dad well Janice is pregnant as you know, and I'm not going to be staying in san lucia I have to go back And he tell me well why you want to go back and his thing about I used to help him all the time I said no, but now it's my turn to go back.

I have to go back So I'm going to spend a month in san lucia work hard get a ticket to go back to england and so said so then And I came up up up ahead And everything just from there and to tell you the truth my wife's hell Of me coming back to coming back to england because it's a hard struggle of living the happy life in san lucia You know and to say well everybody gonna tell you oh no, you're gonna be strapped down Or the wife have you under the farm but you take all them things and you put it aside And you say well, I come here to do something I'll have to try my best And one thing I always say my dad always tell me when you want to do anything If you know you cannot do it, don't waste your time do something else, but if you know you can do it You do it with your heart and hundred percent.

That's one advice you always gave me and I took it along with you And that's maybe why now We're here together That's my same it's like it's a mindset thing in it Yeah, it's a my just what you just said there is is a mindset thing If if you know you can't do it, then don't do it But if you know you can do it put 100 into it because I think the saying is essentially Whether you say you can do something or you say you can't do it.

You're always right Because there's a mindset of if you've put it in your head that you can't do it You're never going to put 100 into it anyway But if you say to yourself and if it's kind of positive reassurance as well to say I can do this. I can do this. I can do this. You're more likely to get it done Which means you was right because you can do it.

So it's definitely a mindset thing Pops, I guess that that question will be posed to you as well about what your experiences were when you became a dad for the first time Okay Well, I must say I was scared a bit You know stressed worried Afraid of the future And it all starts from the day you hear that those words i'm pregnant And that that is just the start first of all with the first phase of nine months You know and Yes, there is there is the duty of telling the parents Which is stressful in itself.

Don't know how they're going to take it uh The wife's parents took it very well My parents my mother particularly Uh bearing in mind I was 19 Uh still at college and She was almost like What have you done?

You know, you've messed up your life You know your future is now problems difficulties So But getting out the way That was the hardest bit then the beauty of watching the nine months of pregnancy I think I was more worried than My wife my mother the mother of my children You know, I was always worried concerned Are you eating properly? Are you getting your vitamins? Are you sleeping? You know, how you feeling?

Are you tired? You know, don't lift anything too heavy. Take it easy.

I'm here You know, I am I am your support Don't overdo it But I think as men we underestimate the strength of women And They they they manage they get through and they do they do a brilliant job So You know nine months later The baby's here The happiest moment of my life All my worries All of my stresses Gone out the window It's actually interesting that you uh, you say that because obviously You're giving us your stories from Generations what's happened years back obviously You guys are our dads.

So obviously we can we can I well at least I can relate as a dad now In in many different ways and I guess the thing that we can I guess as dads We we all kind of relate to the feeling of fear The feeling of fear but it's not it's not the funny thing is it's not just fear of It's not just fear of okay, what will my parents think? it's a fear of Okay. Now I have to step up a little bit now.

I have to become someone who maybe I wasn't ready to be like now I have to Fit into that role of being a protector Whereas maybe before that you may have just been considering yourself as I don't know a partner to your girlfriend or your wife at the time You may have in some respects thought of yourself as a bit of an individual and then it's now like I'm pregnant the fear kicks in of Okay, now i've got to do a lot more It's not just me anymore.

It ain't just me anymore Yeah, exactly. Um, and yeah, I definitely resonate with that. I'm not gonna lie. I did have a fear of of of say of sharing that news with my parents just because When you share that news, there's no going back. The acknowledgement's there now.

There's no going back whatsoever As soon as you tell your parents your your your siblings and whoever else i'm having a baby Well, you ain't going back from that.

So it's an ignore that step is an acknowledgement in itself um, and that's I guess the first hurdle that we all have to jump over as as fathers as men And transitioning from it's interesting how you think about it now is that moment is almost the transition the hurdle that you jump over from being Simon me as an individual as a man to Simon the dad I've now transitioned and that's the start of the journey So, um, yeah, I definitely when you guys were sharing that I definitely resonate a lot with that when I when I first found out Uh, it was yeah, it was difficult.

It was again. I was funny enough pops. I didn't realize you was 19. I was 19, too How did that happen? Well, yeah, it was just um I think I told I think I told my brother bradley first. I think I told him first or shot. I basically I told my siblings first and I was like well How am I gonna do this?

I need to share it with the parents Um It was just basically I just had to step up and just sit down and say look I need to have a conversation this is the situation and by By god's grace, I guess and the blessings of the parents that I have it was It was a mature conversation. It was a very Accepting conversation There was no judgment on on my part at all.

No one was saying oh you did wrong What you've ruined your life blah blah blah, and I guess In some respects, I guess that it's because of how I was raised they kind of knew Who I was and kind of the role that I would the role that I would take in that situation um And it was just it made it so much easier for me to also accept it and know that I've got the support to then Go through this journey And I wouldn't I wouldn't be doing it alone so, um Yeah, it's just again.

It's just a bit of an appreciation again from you pops and and mums as well about how That situation was handled and it allowed it allowed me to Be a better dad because I knew I had that support Oh, that's cool.

That's that's yeah, it's quite um Quite a beautiful thing to kind of have that and yeah for you to finally come in as well To hear your dad's kind of side of how he started and then you came in and you became a father and it was again It was just a very fluid process. He was he was more stressed out than them them Supporting you was like, yeah, okay simon. That's that's cool. We raised you, right?

So It's gonna be just fine. It's gonna be just fine. So that's quite interesting. So it's good to probably transition into um Probably asking you guys um What would your proudest moment as a father be? proudest moment other than obviously the Getting past the fear hurdle and actually doing the nine months. But when what at what point?

Did you probably he was a father and you did something or something happened and you said Yeah, i'm a good father, but i'm I'm really good at this Anybody could start yeah anybody I could come in there There are many things that as a father You you aim to to I would say teach and show your children and There are little things when as an example You know your your children grow up they start to walk now i've always been a cyclist so as soon as the kids were able to You know reach the floor on a bicycle they had one and I took it my job my responsibility to show them How to ride a bicycle?

They started off with stabilizer And that might have gone on for five six months Now one day those stabilizers come off and Your son or my son and all three of them cyclists One day they got on that bicycle They pushed off they started to pedal And lo and behold they're riding a bicycle that I taught them to ride That moment itself I felt good The smile on their face when they were able to Ride up and down no more stabilizers.

I'm a big boy. I'm a big girl Stabilizers i'm a big boy. I'm a big girl I helped them to get to that stage that level and That's one moment on your moment Hey, you did it with all three of them as well.

No, no, no, Simon Simon said no, I don't want to do this But no, no, you do it I had to keep up with the rest of them in it because I got my two older siblings If they're riding a bike now, I can't be walking around like I go catch up All right, that's cool go ahead my proudest moment, uh, let me see I cannot say anything individual But my proudest moment is the day the second And the minute He was born from this time on till now at 31 every single day I get up in the morning and I remember him and he calls us and I speak to him and We be together It's a proud moment for me Because Like you said You've done it by making him ride a bike But every time the sun rises and I know he's there I say yes I done it and i'm proud And he's on the right place.

He's on the right track and it just feels so warm inside and Good to know That like we'll see we done that That's All I ever ever wanted from the after I said, um before I said, um, hell no That's it that's it anything he do I just know that it will be a proud moment for me I don't know if I have a particular moment, but I I always Get reminded I guess of how proud or proud I am of my kids is when I see them kind of break barriers in a sense where they they kind of they get over their fears of something or They like I've always I've always been quite proud of of um My kids when they first said dad When they first said daddy for the first time that always touches you When they say they love you for the first time that always touches you Seeing them grow and and learning and and break as I said kind of breaking barriers and taking that next step like Being able when they they they're being potty trained and they go to the toilet for the first time without like, you know Making a mess or anything not using the nappies like those things it's just You've contributed to that as as a dad raising your child teaching them things Um, and it's always a nice reminder to know that you're you're doing a good job By them either verbally saying it to you or just just showing you that love and again Seeing them grow up to be the person that you You imagine they would become in a sense obviously to be fun to be to be fair with your kids You you never really know which direction they're going to go in you can't control them at all times But it's it's when it's when they're they're they're going at least on that path of what you you hoped for them It's like yeah, that's when you you definitely feel a sense of sense of pride.

So that's how that's how I would describe mine All right, there's some beautiful moments that you've all shared. Um When we'll do this again when it's my time, don't worry. It's coming It's coming Um, I want to ask something that um for the listeners to relate because this is probably something I think about a lot as well um before even becoming a father was How did you um?

balance like your work and fatherhood actually like how did you balance those two to with each other because that's something a lot of people think about and Especially in this kind of our like I would say for us in our era Right now for me and simon a lot of things are about kind of career driven How do you advance your career as best as possible and get the best out of it and dream really really big?

so i'm wondering for you guys like how was it balancing being a father and Um working and or making well, let me actually let me let me touch on that quickly So just to obviously give a little bit of a relation to our listeners as well About where in terms of our generation is again, I can't speak for everyone But I know this is the recurring theme through speaking to friends who have kids as well is As craig mentioned we are very Career driven and I definitely would say that for myself.

My ambition was always to Get a good job Save up get a home have a partner settle down then have a family and it almost happened in reverse So when that kind of kicked off first, it was like, ah, this is just throwing everything out a whack It's like what do I do now?

That this is this is this wasn't the plan like this is stressing me out now because I'm not in the place that I wanted to be When I was going to start a family, this was never the intention So it was it was honestly difficult and the reason why it probably was more difficult is because I wasn't even working at the time I was still in college I was still studying.

I was still trying to get education Yeah, I was still going through that transition of actually Being educated going into work earning money then like building a home and a family So the fact that that's happening while i'm being educated. It's like it this it was such a That's why even I started was such a difficult thing to just process is that how am I even going to do this? I'm not i'm not working.

I'm not earning money like that. So how am I even going to support a child? So It was it was very difficult. I have to be honest, but at the same time I would I would probably say it definitely matured me a lot earlier than I thought I would have matured because It's like that light bulb moment. There's there's no there's no delays now.

There's no playing about this child ain't going away You got nine months until they're here, bro. You better fix up. So it was like, okay cool I've got to start looking at um Doing internships apprenticeships building up my portfolio finding some work earning a bit of money Obviously, where am I going to live? Okay, i'm still at my parents house. Is there enough space at my parents house?

How is that dynamic going to work? So it is it's Mentally if i'm honest with you It does take a toll on you and especially if you don't have the support that I thankfully did have if you don't have that support it can be quite damaging as a father trying to Trying to figure that out and trying to balance Education work fatherhood and at the same time we've already got those pressures of just as a man You're a dad.

You've got to go out and earn the money like that's just the expectation from you You're the dad no matter if you're 16 or you're 25 or you're 35. You're the dad So your role as society says it is you're the breadwinner. So you have to step up and get the work done You have to make the money.

So if you're not even earning that it's like well Where do I start from here what do I do and that's not trying to be funny But sometimes that's the excuse that people have to to get into things where they start selling drugs And they're doing all of these things because it's like I need that money. I can't get a job right now I haven't got the education like whatever else I need some I need money quick.

So what am I going to do? I'll start robbing. I'll start stealing. I'll start selling drugs. So It is it is difficult.

Um, and for me balancing the two Was hard because again the fact that I then had to stop progressing into work It means i'm being the time is being taken away from essentially me being a dad for the first time Or me being a dad for the second time and trying to help raise my child Like a lot of the time I would be at work and then the child would be with their mother and it's like i'm missing out on moments Like it's the and the thing is the what doesn't help Is the system that's put in place again with these expectations on dads like When you're when you find out you're having a child and you're working at the time and you say, okay cool How much time can I take off work to support the mother and support the child?

They're like, yeah, we'll give you two weeks off But the mother can get up to a year off they get that maternity leave for a year and the dads get like two weeks It's like well Where's how does that work?

Because yes, okay We need to make money, but there's no there's no fairness in that sense of you wanting to be a part of your child's life From the early years It is it is hard because you feel like you are missing out on a lot Thankfully the system has started to change where you can actually balance Maternity leave and paternity leave where you can actually share that time off so you can have six months off And the mother can have six months off or there's there's different systems in place which now in our generation Is helping to solve some of those problems, but Again for you guys, i'm sure you can describe a little bit more about how it was for you When you obviously started or you you became a dad now you're working or you're having to go into work Balancing that and what kind of pressures expectations and stuff you had on you during that time?

Okay. Um I'd say I was working I wasn't working when Craig was born about say Three weeks after that I got a job my company and then What make it the money wasn't that good? So that means we really had to count the pennies Myself and my wife.

Yeah count the change sacrifice put things together where we kind of do that now because Craigies came through so the money we had to spend going out to At that time we used to go to duggies and things like that to clubs and things like that And we say well, we can't do that now because we have to put that aside and things like that I think from that time with my experience with myself and my wife together we had a Good bonding to say well We'll put things together listen to each other and see how it worked from then Um whilst time goes by I miss out on a lot like From his first communion I think that because I should start working seven days a week I do it because I didn't want him to miss out On anything.

I didn't want my wife like to If she she had a good job.

She earned good money, but I was there to make sure that Everything would be easier on the two of them Mm-hmm But this as you said as the father you think like you're the breadwinner I think the same way too But my thought is like going out working all the time the hours I could get Just to make life a bit easier And that's what a lot of others should be doing Because some people think well, I have a father the wife is there.

Yes She has to take care of the kids you I'll go to the pub and every Saturday and still go and have a drink But today or tomorrow then you the wife start arguing and then that's how things break up I didn't say don't go out I didn't say forget your life or what you're doing But you have to give a little leeway of what you used to do when you're single and when that child comes around You have to like like you said if you got the money you go stealing Luckily my company was right to me so I could work in my company people used to tell me Why are you working seven days a week?

Why aren't you working for the white people so much you're gonna kill yourself, but look at me now I'm in sennusha Well There's no doubt about it.

You know being a father said earlier is hard work and As craig dad said and has shown Hard work pays off There's there's no easy way and you know What I would say is I'm a first generation in this country and Unfortunately the perception I had from the older generation From from sennusha was The man's the breadwinner You know The mother has the children she stays at home raise the children Fathers out there doing all hours god sent And I was in the same boat Doing overtime Weekends nights early shift You know fortunately I had a good job still with a company today royal mail downside was Being a shift worker I was working a 24-hour rotation over a month And some as I felt The pressures the difficulties of playing and being that part Of a father where You know, you're trying to get the balance of providing financially But then there's always also Supporting and Nurturing the the emotional side the the the character there's the individual the child growing up So I've always believed that if you strive for that balance to provide on all levels Of fatherhood You don't always get it right But to to aim And then to see how they turn out I think it's a job.

Well done That's a good um, that's a good answer and it's um What like the the whole work-life balance thing is actually a quite a Something in our generation that they used to say the concept they use work-life balance saying that basically I don't know what it some people have the aim like work-life balance should be easy And you guys have made it very clear No, no, no, no, it's never easy But it's worth it in the end.

So and you've all kind of shown it and I think one of the key things because both my dad and and you of course Uncle you you both highlighted the fact that You work crazy hours and one of the the one of the the the worst things for you guys was like If you didn't get like you're doing all this and you don't get to see your child or children that can be hard in itself Um, but one of the things that i'm engaging from the both of you is that when you are there Then you're there like you're not Wandering elsewhere or thinking about something else you're you're fully on and I could say from my From my perspective when dad like that worked Seven days a week.

I never really felt neglected or anything. I knew he was working but as soon as he's home Then he's he's like he's instantly available. He's talking we're every single night.

We're eating together We're talking or we're basically just going through the day and going through emotions, etc And then even if he's shattered even if he's completely tired, we'll still go through the same conversation It was rare time that dad would say no, it's too tired or anything.

We always have that conversation I'm assuming it's probably the same for you as you said when you had the time Uncle, you would basically you would be there. You're you're there.

You're you're on onboard like they got to get these bicycle skills on point for me But um, and I think that's a key thing for people to think about As well and same with Simon actually I could say for you sign because I watch you With um the door every time every weekend you you got little ones this weekend. Yeah. Yeah, I got I got I got so Okay, cool. That's cool.

You could bring a number number number It's gonna be us and then we got I will meet you in the next week And I appreciate that I when Simon says that to me I say I appreciate that because he's he's never he's never ever like Yeah, okay I'll cut the time away or i'll bring her along but that's his time with his his his daughters in a sense so I always appreciate that and I want to say this for the listeners because I'm going to be very honest with you This is a very harsh thing is that a lot of people a lot of fathers who don't decide to step up Is because one they believe that their life is not in place where they want it to be like Simon said Two they don't want to have to work crazy hours to make it all things come together Or three they believe that if they can't give their hundred percent to their child all the time Then they shouldn't be in their life at all And then this causes them to be absent to leave to abandon the responsibility of being a father to say I can't do this Even if there is something in them that can because nobody's put in a situation that you cannot deal with In a sense and I want people to listen to this because I want you to understand It's not supposed to be easy as dad says and I actually live by that It's funny like all the stuff that you say I live by is if it was easy Then it's probably not worth it if anything if for me I always say if it's easy I'm not a bit scared of it actually because I feel like it could be taken away very easily But if it's hard and you when you've worked for it It will be worth it and it will stay in a sense and this same goes for people that are new fathers Or becoming fathers or already fathers It's not supposed to be easy But it is worth it in the end and even if you feel that you can't do it And you think you can't do it and it seems too hard and you think you're not going to be able to put enough time into it Just try Like Bro, it is hard It's there's no there's no as we said, it's not easy It is not especially when we're talking about balancing work like the the things that we've described Craig what you mentioned about your dad.

He's doing a seven day Seven days working but yet when he comes home, he's the dad that you need him to be that requires a lot of energy That requires a lot.

You don't realize how how hard it can be after you've done a nine to five shift Sometimes it may be early Maybe starting at 7 a.m finishing at 9 p.m And then to come home and still have the energy and the patience to play with your child Have a little bit of a silly kick about football Whatever read them a bedtime story when all you're thinking about is i'm so shattered and i've got to wake up early tomorrow To do the same thing again Like and your kids are like daddy come and play with me come and do this come and do that It's like I just want to lie down But you have to give them that energy because you haven't been with them all day Like it is really difficult.

I have to I have to honestly admit and I guess this will be a question. I'll just pose to you guys quickly and i'll answer it myself as well is Was there ever Or did you ever come close to a breaking point?

I will say for me in particular with my first child there was and I think again because I was young and just the struggles I was really having in life of Trying to figure out work trying to figure out home the relationship becoming a dad for the first time not being used to these early hours helping to do bottle feeds and stuff my one of my biggest challenges or biggest Moments I had was when my oldest daughter she was probably I don't know six months.

I don't even know. I don't think she was a year yet She was maybe like six months and I was helping to do like the bottle feeds the early feeds I woke up it was maybe three o'clock in the morning Had to wake her up.

She was crying had to give her a bottle and she just would not stop crying She would not stop and the thing is she's crying for a bottle But only dads will realize this there's a process to bottle feeding You got to get the milk especially if you're using like the powder or whatever you got to put the powder in You got to put the bottle in hot water.

It takes a few minutes to warm up all this time She is crying the house down I'm shattered my eyes ain't even fully open She's doing a madness and i'm just like, oh my god Like it's too much so Like it was a real real struggle for me to try and get through that and it's literally after the bottle was made I was just like just take the flipping bottle and just stop crying like please it was it was it was really Uh a bad and and it was actually a very isolated Experience because everyone else was sleeping Everyone else was sleeping so it was just me in that moment and it's like I didn't have the help and at the same time I felt kind of guilty in asking for the help because like especially the the mother of of my child Like she had already done like the bottle feeds and or the the breastfeeding and she had already had a long day So I was there after I finished work to try and help so me trying to ask for help after I hadn't been doing anything during that day was just It was a sense of guilt.

So I had to kind of take it on by myself and it was one of the the low points that I had to deal with in Becoming or transitioning into being a dad and dealing with that. So I will again i'll pose the question is was there ever A moment where you just felt this I can't I can't do this time and I'll To you I'll say well No I didn't have a broken a breaking point Because uh I don't know there's something about me.

Well when Craig was born it's like Every day was a new day for me He he you say your baby used to cry Craig used to do it on purpose Craig used to wake up At two in the morning and I had to shake him to bed And he'll never stop crying until six in the morning For months free your bad mind Yeah until after time I get a trick how to do it Yeah after say three four five months I realized if I take him put him face down and take one of my My my trainers and put it on his back Then he stopped crying.

Oh my gosh, are you sure he just could have really got that point? In this day in this day they tell you people putting children on the face down or how they get caught there Yeah, but I used to have a fair training. I used to have the the river pump This is heavy. Wow and put it on his back And that's he he keeps quiet.

Craig we're thankful you're still here, man Apart from that in growing up I never had a breaking point I never had a breaking point It's like every day was a new day a day for me to think I like he he could tell you In his whole life when we call ourselves battered children. I only knocked and spank him once. Yeah once And that day spank him.

It was a friday morning and the friday afternoon I went to august and buy two bags of toys Make him be happy again two big bags. I know them august big bags.

Yeah, that's what it was Half of my salary Just to come home with toys for him Because every day is just like a happy day once he's happy i'm happy because my wife is happy happy It's a happy home like a happy family And I always use tickets like that Pops good Okay, um Breaking point for me I would say No, there was no breaking point whatsoever at any stage of the time What I would say is There was many a times when I felt when I wanted to run away You know the the Lot of pressures but Being a father having a child first child is new the experiences you know It's new and the situations that You ain't experienced that You know children a baby will cry You know where we stay hungry they they They got wins.

They're teething Now if you don't understand how to deal with these situations You know a child's cry Is air pacing you know You you you want to run out the house?

It's it's so much So You learn and you find ways Or you you experience or you talk to others if What it takes to to raise a child to to bring up a baby more so Uh But for me also I I said i've got three children and there was only a couple of years difference between each two so on one hand when you was learning experiences On one You're almost starting again, but in that but you've got the experience from the first one which helps now We as parents knows the responsibilities and the commitments and the dedication takes to bring up a child and Many times I believe my my wife would feel the pressure Of bringing up the children raising the children And it would be sometimes literally Here's the children No You look after them you deal with them you feed them you change them and that Sometimes was hard because you may have just come from work.

You may have just gotten up uh and luckily I would never put Outside influences friends whatever before my children Sometimes you might think I just want to go out You know, i'll go for a walk. I go and see my friends go to a club And that thought would come for a second And then you shake out of it no I need to be here. I need to take on I need to Do my bit. I need to help my wife.

She's feeling it If she's feeling it Then I have to do my bit to make sure That she's supported gets the rest and also I'm showing her that It takes two to bring up a family you're not on your own and We're in this together so Two together working together It makes life so much easier Yeah, it's good it's really cool to hear it's very is again I I hear about different authority experiences and I guess it's very different from for me and simon's generation I don't know what it is with us again.

Both of you are first generation caribbeans as well So kind of came back from your home or your this is like your first time being here So you look what had other Other battles to go with as well being in this country trying to kind of fit in properly as well work and not have to fight any other battles, but in our generation we have a bit of a different case where We have options Um, if anything our generation is kind of entitled now with the two of you from what i'm listening to You guys literally just turned it on you Your fathers you put aside the things that you need to do and sacrifice what you needed and then you just got on and done And done it and I find the generation today is slightly different.

I find things are not so um You can't be entitled as a father like nobody's going to give you anything The work is all on you in a sense and I think that changes people It makes people realize that they have to they do have to pull things out the bag Like it's not just go to school and you learn and then you get a degree and then you just instantly get a job and Money's coming to you.

There's no job seekers allowance for fathers. There's no father's seekers It's just you in a sense and I think that's different and I think for people to kind of listen to what's going on And for me to listen to as well because it's good to see simon a few of my other brothers as well and to see I have a dad like I have now and also to see you as well uncle to know that Even like now i'm in a relationship.

I find relationships hard and I said But what makes you think that hard is supposed to be a bad thing Hard is your growing point.

You've never you've never chilled on the sofa or been party and grown and gotten better Know you that is your way to uh to release and relax But actually your growing points is where the hard parts are happening you get through those And the breaking points and you get past those and the ones when you want to run away But you don't and you stay where you are and you get through it And I think that's something that's very important for us to hear and again, it just goes all the way full circle This is why y'all are appreciated as fathers Because of all of this because of the work the stuff that they don't glamorize in on the tv kind of things They start the stuff that they just assume fathers should be doing it They glamorize women and and mothers and they rightly should because women are truly strong and they're very powerful They didn't they did a lot of work But again some fathers or fatherhood in general, especially black fatherhood is not necessarily glamorized To say that this is what you do when you go to work and you do all these crazy things you come home And your wife is going to be tired.

You're probably going to have to do some work or you You just had a massive argument with your boss at work But when you come home, you must play be happy chappie and give your son love or your your daughter love During that time and I find that that dynamic is very It shows you that women are extremely dynamic for them to do the pregnancy and to be mothers and to be strong and to support you But then it also shows fathers are dynamic to be a strong figure to be the breadwinners to navigate through this world and then still Use the two of you all three of you show love as well And it kind of transitions to the thing that I want to talk about as well, which is Especially in the caribbean household as well Um A lot of it is is I'll say for my part firstly a lot of it is usually they class it as tough love, right where they don't really say that they love you but You knew that they did somewhere underlying in some way in the in the way they taught you or the way they they beat you Or the way they did they dealt with you was tough love now with dad I never had that obviously he only hit me once and that was it.

I I don't remember He hit me to be honest with you. Um And so dad never had the tough love side to it he was really honest he was um, like stern and Strong about his decisions and he we talked things through He didn't beat it to me in a sense. He we talked things through in a sense. So um But I don't from listening to dad. That's not how he was taught when he had when granddad was there He wasn't taught the same way.

So i'm very interested in kind of the question really is What does what is love to you guys in a sense? What made you transition from how you were taught to where you are today? In a sense, um, and how how do you kind of portray love in that way?

I would say because everyone's very different and again a lot of we've heard a lot of different fathers that say They don't they don't know how to love their kids Um, but use up crap.

I think you you guys crafted your way that you wanted to love your kids Um, so how did how did that come across how did you how did oh i'll ask you against the question The first thing is how did you know to kind of love me the way that you did?

Compared to how you was loved by your dad It's it's nowhere about it it's like um For me loving you to whether we like I just said in the beginning My dad done what he done because he had loved me, but I didn't see it I didn't see it.

Like you said must be tough love, but I didn't see it because I was young Until you came through I realized what he was doing so My love for you is like It's not something that you you you you you make or bring together is something that just stay it's in in our relationship It's in our relationship that's it's no way you could get any bad feelings Okay, we argue sometimes but still we learn from that and we still love Love is not something that you you make Or you inherit Is something that's in you with your family and your children?

That's how I have to put it Well, what I would add to that is The the concept of loving your child It it's almost like making a cake You know, there's there's so many different ingredients.

You've got your flour your sugar your eggs your milk You know, and then you've got the you have to beat it all together, you know So You know showing you your child as love it's So many different things No Yes, you have to discipline your child when they do something It doesn't have to be physical My generation unfortunately, that's what they knew. It was physical.

Yeah, it was physical, you know My dad's my stepdad would Not talk to me about life would not show me the love is in a way that Maybe a child wants you know to sit down and let's play some games.

Let's have a conversation Ask you how's things how's school You know These little things is a way of showing love showing interest So you've got discipline, you know, you give your child time You watch them You observe them You give them space Maybe whether it's My perception as a father that You allow your child to to Step out in the world and that's from being born You know, they they explore their adventure And they'll make mistakes Now it's your responsibility or duty to to observe all of that And when the time comes you say hang on son Hang on daughter, you know, this wasn't right Um So you correct them somewhere or another tough love situation Something you do So that they benefit from it later in life because I know it's weird It's a weird thing, but I know that for some men They find it very hard to tell their kids that they love them um, I I'm trying to think from experience when my dad Said that he loved me for the first time or when I actually acknowledged that he said it because I saw it in his his actions all the time but I and dad you can correct me if i'm wrong but I I didn't really acknowledge when you you openly said I love you until Later on in life, maybe in my early 20s or late teens Um, I never really heard that from you if i'm honest, i'm obviously it's not to put you on the spot or anything but it's just It was no honestly, it's just for me it was something that I I struggled with saying but I I kind of made it a bit of a conscious effort with my kids To tell them that um Because I think it's I think it's just an important thing to hear it's weird because i've got daughters So sometimes as men we feel it's easier to say it to your daughters than it is to say it to your sons The the concept where that comes from i'm, not sure maybe again It's talking about this whole tough love and with our sons we feel like we need to beat them Whereas with our daughters we feel like we need to hug them and tell them that we love them um so I guess for me in terms of of love and how i've showed that to my kids I I show that for me in being present as much as possible first and foremost and actually just being there and giving them my time and just doing the things that they want to do whether it's watching one of their favorite tv shows or Going out to the park or baking or doing whatever but then Just telling them I love them when I say good night give them a kiss and saying I love you.

Um and I i'm I wonder if I would be the same towards my son I hope I would and I would want to say yes, but I i've never had that sense of Having a son and and that tough love so I guess the the lead on or the following from that question, which is an interesting thing to talk about is having a son and that idea of um Masculinity and and treating them as What you would want them to be as a man and how you treated them because they was a son and even the idea as well, and I don't know whether you would have questioned this is The thought of sexuality of having a son and thinking what if they're gay And how you would deal with that Just the idea of what your impressions of What the impressions you have of first of all being a man and then having a son What what kind of impressions or what things did you instill into your kids because they were sons?

It's a it's a it's a weird thing to touch on But I guess you can you can try and elaborate on that as as much as you can uncle you could start you could start Repeat the question So So the question would be more So the question would be like you being a man and bringing up a son Did you kind of impose? Anything onto your son or on me?

While you brought me up like around sexuality how to be a man masculinity stuff like that Did you really impose anything like that in a sense? with me now because Craig and I raised up like okay first in our family we raised up like from 10 years young Every time he goes to bed first thing he said, I love you.

Good night that goes up until now Even when we in san luce and he comes in drunk He will come into that room knock the door and say good night. I love y'all And we yeah, we love you. Good night. And all right, that's it Yeah when comes to talking to him Like his mom will say, oh, did you talk to craig about the birds and the bees?

I say why look You know, you know what to do, you know, it's easy It's not like I could not sit down and tell him But I was seeing within him From growing up to be a man that he make my life easier Because I'd have to go into it because I know his mind was already screwed up to what's coming The life he he opened up for himself I saw that coming You know, so to me On his part on my part It was easy for me Because I saw it coming.

So I didn't have to Maybe impose that on him or tell him about the birds than the bees and things like that, you know Even sometimes, you know, he say oh and we'll say oh, yeah, craig will not if so many fellas You know, do you have a girlfriend or something?

We used to think about at that time What he have to be he have to be Oh, no, but you ask him if you have a girl I said no, why because I saw the way he is coming up Because I was the same When I was young I used to have Okay a lot of girlfriends Yeah, but Then it was just friends people thought like I used to go out with a lot of women.

It's just friends You know, but majority of the people I used to go out with was a lot of guys You know, I used to go out with a lot of guys when I was young people even thought well, maybe I was gay myself You know because we used to go out all the time with guys because I I learned how to dance when I was like 21 22 I start holding my wife my wife hand when she was when I was about 23 You know, I didn't know how to talk to women like conversing them like on say as a A girlfriend boyfriend thing.

I should just sit on there some good and then sit on the quiet like a mouse So it wasn't a problem of if I was gay or if I was not It's just that's how life takes you So I saw it in him already so I didn't have a problem I could say from my part like being in school went to And well when I was in primary school You just have both men and women well girls and boys that were your friends And when I went to secondary school, obviously went to a boys school with simon with um All boys, but again, I was the part type to pretty much just go straight home.

So after I've gone straight home So angela's is the other way from home and mom says I gotta call her at four p.m So i'm thinking well, how am I gonna how am I gonna see girls and then go and then go home? It's not gonna make sense. I gotta get home.

So I just go home And they didn't really I didn't really start to interact with girls until probably social media times And then if your social media is not like you want to bring them to your hey I'm talking to a girl on social media.

It's just gonna be like, well, it's just your private thing So it didn't really come into play of like women and stuff like that until when we got to college Was my first girlfriend in that sense where we actually started to mix but no dad didn't impose Anything that was related to being how to be a man We wasn't I didn't I don't I still don't watch football to this day.

I didn't watch any sports either Um, that wasn't too that used to work out and used to do basketball. He still didn't impose that on me Um didn't impose anything about women or men or anything mum was only mum was more that But is he yeah, but is he gay or is he not?

It's not a big deal and then um And then in a sense of he I never felt the like a pressure of how to be a man Like there was never a case of your man now kind of thing It was never like that.

It was what I was taught was that while I lived in my parents household I was always the boy, but we will always teach you the best way to navigate in the world as a man regardless in a sense But the one thing that dad did say was just remember that every action you take Has a reflection on who you are and how people perceive you.

So just remember that so every action I take It will it will have a reflection on my image who I am and also their image, but mostly about my image well for me Those kind of conversations I think if I remember rightly Didn't really develop till The the kids were Going into puberty now It was my wife that was more instigating those kind of conversations And There's there's two sides to it when As a father you've got Female and you've got the males in the family You know conversation that they both warrant To hear from you as a parent And it doesn't matter who it comes from though the mother or the father the conversations need to happen and My perception was As a father to to a female There was one conversation Or a different conversation that would be had uh about obviously boys and the issues of relationships um and foremost, you know pregnancy Um, and then after that it was well When you do find somebody I want you to find somebody who's going to treat you, right?

The little conversations I must admit I've had with my boys was basic straightforward You know You're a boy You want to go out there enjoy yourself?

and You may find somebody now You have a good time Look after yourself Take your precaution And hopefully You know, everything will be all right If it's not That's in the hands of the gods You know Be yourself Look after yourself And if you find somebody Obviously look after them Now if it's a case that That person you find is of the same sex Wow That's that's a topic an issue which I would have struggled Um to deal with Hopefully I wouldn't have looked at my son in a different way Because we've all got a right to be happy and choose who we want to choose to be with So But I know for sure Over the years I've learned to accept that People of people you can't choose Who you want that person to be So I will not judge them I will not put them down for being different in any way shape or form I know for sure 100 percent You'll get the same love Now just think obviously you guys have been dads for for for several years now you've gained different experiences along the way You've learned different things obviously pops I can speak for you having three kids I'm sure there's a lot more you've learned having multiple kids and the differences within our own Personalities and our own journeys.

I know i've probably been a difficult one out of all three of us But that's that's another subject to this. So I guess the question would be is um, what have you learned? about fatherhoods That you would hope Your son would take on as a father What would be the thing that you would hope that they would take on and and you'd want to pass on in terms of fatherhood?

Okay I would say Do the best you can to provide For your child your children and That means making sure That their life is as happy and it's peaceful And as loving as possible You know the stresses of life You know As appearance you you will have arguments disagreement with your partner Try to keep those arguments to the minimum Keep your spirits up Smile and laugh as much as you can But be genuine But always keep your heart open and always show them love And so I must say You know seeing you develop as a father Dealing with the issues of parenthood You know, i'm proud of you and Don't be a fear of life and worry about You're not going to be able to provide You're not going to be able to give them those materialistic things Just be there Show them the love Give them the time All the worries Are gone I agree I support that 100% on what you said Like some people think Like being a father is to be tough And It's like it's hard work and things like that One thing I have to say Being a father is like Work with it Bring love into the family Which I people might say well, you know, it's easy for you to say because you've done it but It's not that you we've done it already.

It's something like You have to Bring into life It's not something that you're like I just I tell you for you just to buy it's not Perceived it's something you have to bring something you have to work For all what we've done now You all know what we that what we go through at your grandparents your grandfather Your father And when you are father simon when craig become a father, I think within myself now You will carry That same concept we gave you and bring into your family but better Because there's no point you go backwards with your family Because then you'll say well, what did I learn?

Yeah, so What you're doing now Is what you knew you learned from your dad your dad learned from? His dad just like me. So now I want you you all now Have to bring that to your family the love the respect the understanding And the togetherness into your family I Always try to say like I have a we have a concept myself. No, I've said we never want craig to to Get to do what we done work hard and really struggle.

We make it easy We make it easy for y'all to come up and do better And I know within my heart y'all will y'all will Craig any final thoughts from you before we wrap up?

um I would say um, you know what's what's really really powerful about the whole this look at the whole conversation and being brought up by dad and mom, of course and Um watching you simon and even watching uncle from a long time that i've known you a lot.

Um It's just it's always just nice to see the concept of love being the the key part actually And it's not something that's talked about it's not really spoken about like black men and love in a sense It's it's it's not and I really think it's always that tough love or something. That's hard.

It's always harsh or like uh Like strict it's always other words that are not necessarily associated with love But I really find in both our households Love is like the core part the core piece of it in a sense of showing the love showing emotion showing Being honest and being transparent.

So for me To watch that it and also to the the just the fact that none of you have said there's an easy story There was no easy story involved Um, I and I do have fear like if I have to think about the stuff I have to be prepared for and what I what I would like and I want to be in the kid's life I don't want to have to work and work so hard and have to have my child.

So that's why I do so much now But with you guys to just hear it If if when it happens And god says it's time it will be okay and it's not supposed to be easy But it will be worth it in the end and there will be love And all he doesn't you don't have to you you will work at the love But it's not something you won't discover you will discover just by turning up by trying by doing in a sense So that's what I that's what I gained from all of you guys To hear that and to feel that and experience that um first hand And again something for I want the listeners to to hear as well to just know Just just if you are a father Out there or you're becoming a father or you're thinking of becoming a father Just know that you was given the fatherhood for a reason and you are able You are able you can do it and you will succeed at it as well.

Um, and when it's father's day, which is today When you are listening You should be enjoying it just possible in a sense So I would like to say just a massive thank you to you guys firstly for being the role models as great fathers um um just great people to follow and to to Take what you've been doing and then also Just to everybody else to just I hope you all have a great father's day Yeah, and well done father's day.

That's the big father's day Happy father's day everybody