Ep23 | Should We Be Protecting Women Better? (Ft Ryan & Denzil)

How do you expect to change the world if you don't change yourself? But you can see a change in other people for you to see a change in other men As you said you need the accountability You need to be responsible for the actions that you are pulling because if you're willing to say to this guy Oh, don't do that to that woman, but you're doing the same thing.

How but you're not any better than he is This Talking to my welcome to talking to my thoughts the podcast where we have open honest and raw conversations with a twist We bring a unique perspective on our thoughts by literally pre recording the things on our mind before talking about them with the group We do this because we believe before you can be open with others.

You must first be open with yourself Stay up to date with all our content by following us on our socials at talking to my thoughts and make sure you guys Listen to the end to how responses to some of your thought-provoking questions My name is Craig aka. Mr.

Positive I'm a cheesy motivator with a solution background big dreams and a passion for helping others find and maintain their peace Yeah, and I'm Simon aka SJ proud solution proud father of two and a content creator and a whole bunch of other stuff, which is we'll be here all day if I list them up And we are thankfully here to be joined by two other guests as well, please introduce yourself.

Let's start with you Denzel My name is Denzel. If that's what we're doing. I'm a person Lucian to you know I'm a filmmaker and everything visual. So yeah Perfect. Perfect. And Ryan, please introduce yourself. I'm Ryan or Michael. You want to call it on the PT?

Fitness enthusiast and a creative Just here for the vibes, you know, I love this conversations So before we jump into the conversation We would like to give our listeners an opportunity to get to know our guests a little bit better and start on the front foot By asking some questions to open up the conversation. So I'm gonna start with Denzel if your life expectancy was 500 years old, how would you change your life?

Oh How would I change my life that is a bad question poor, um, you know what maybe Maybe I'll just Slow down a bit more obviously taken taken this year side 2020 Was pretty much moving that breakneck speed the very thing I was trying to do I'm trying to accomplish as much as possible in the shortest time as possible Which also doesn't allow you to I guess be present in some things because you're always thinking in the future What's the next thing?

What's the next thing? What's the next thing? So I think for me I'd I'd try and enjoy the moment a little bit more and Realize that raw like and has so long to go. There's so much time. So there's no rush there's no rush and Just save it every day and I guess appreciate the smaller things a bit more. So yeah, that's I think I'll do I'll make it too confusing Ryan. You cannot.

Yeah Same as Denzel really I'll just slow the process down.

I wouldn't rush a lot of things The things I really care about I'll take time with a lot more so this is where I can actually make time for family members a lot more and I feel like I'll just Probably give my time to people I don't get to see often So I just like like as Denzel said just slowing everything down and giving myself more time as I said 500 years is a lot of time Yeah, just trying to make sure things are done correctly All right, that's not our topic for today Today's topic It's quite a sensitive topic actually and one that we I wanted to bring the right kind of people to have the conversation with About it.

So today's topic is how men can protect women Before we kind of get into the topic as to the specifics and why we chose it at this time point in time. I Would like to ask what does it mean to each one of you lot first? For when you hear men protecting women, what do you think it means?

I guess Simon you can start He's throwing me in at a deeper where oh my days I don't know the first thing I'll try and break it down later on but I guess the first thing that I think in my mind is entitlement Okay, what about you Ryan that's an interesting one and Entire one through me.

So you're gonna have to break that down for me, please When people say protect I feel like People just feel like guarding and I don't feel like that is what it is.

I feel like Mental state as well as a big thing protecting our women mentally for me is a big thing Denzel I'll say listen Listen, I don't feel like you can Protect anyone if you're not listening and you're not paying attention to the To what they're saying. Sometimes it's between the lines and sometimes it's not sometimes.

It's actually just listening so Yeah For me Was actually the word was royalty and I like that because I Remember reading it in a book what he said if your best friend was royalty like a king or a queen, how would you treat them differently and Then it was converted into well Let's say that you are that friend.

You are that person who is royalty then you treat them that way So when I didn't think about women, I think well if we simply just saw them as queens And ourselves as kings There'll be so much so many things that would do differently or see differently or say differently as well So royalty is my key word in that part.

So let's kick off This topic and get a little bit deeper The reason why this topic was particularly chosen was due to the recent incidents and in particular what was happened is when stuff like this of women being unsafe occurs Everybody's like what could they cook? What could women have done to make themselves safer?

It made it be a better way to alert people telling your friends where you are staying indoors dressing properly To the point where there's so many the list is so long it might as well just say you just don't be a woman at this point so I thought and Me both me and Simon for it was just a great time for us to pick a topic where we would say how can Men change the narrative. So we'll kind of get into that.

That's what we'll go ahead in for all the guests to understand And for all the audience to know as well and we'll kick off the usual We usually kick off with a voice note a voice recording which is done I'll do mine first and then we'll go from there So let's kick off how men can protect women this topic pretty much recently come up because of the the news of the woman who was Life was taken Supposedly by another man and it was a really It's a really hard topic to talk about but you know what it's a harder thing to Live through for women because this is something that they just have to always be scared of all the time So it's the least that we can do to really talk about it and for me there is Always this the news and other people saying all women should do this and women should avoid doing this and women should have been doing this and the list goes on and it's a bit ridiculous because The the main issue really originates from men having a lack of self-control is how I see How did we contribute As men we condone things from things that we don't say we sometimes even encourage it and Sometimes we feed into it as well It'd be by some other platform, it's just it's a tough thing to think about because you could go I could probably go back to all the way to school times of Different maybe social groups that are That are not necessarily in the best position I don't even have to say this properly Back in school days.

There was times when people women are just objectified That's that's the simple is as soon as hormone sites are kicking people were objectified And I think this is a massive origin as to where things can kick off I know both men and women objectified but may not have a kind of a dominance to the way they've done things So for me the the origin starts from how we treat it in social groups What did we allow people to say how they want to see women how they might want to use women?

Etc and this then grows into an adult age where it gets very very severe why again because of men just feeling too entitled to wanting to I don't know relieve their pleasure or find a way to to grow their ego or Just just not healthy ways to treat another human being that's as simple as it is it's another human being and We keep Unfortunately that they as they class it as a man's world and other men keep telling women what to do to avoid them Basically being assaulted or raped or harassed and that's ridiculous because the ones doing the raping and harassing the assaulting are men So they should be taught self-control for me, I don't I haven't experienced I Will explore a bit more about how I've maybe felt that I've contributed but I've always tried to find a way To protect women if I've seen something in a in a social context need to be in a dance hall and a man's been a Bit too forceful or a dance or where a man doesn't want a woman doesn't want to be talked at I haven't done being forceful with a woman before myself or even force them to I don't know like if I'm if they if no is no Just the end goal of it.

No is no And I think this isn't translated across to men very much so it's something I really want to talk about I'm in for Yeah, it's a tough topic. So it's a tough topic, but I haven't To me no is no and I don't need to express my ego to too much further than that What I just hope you don't mind me just jumping in real quick I Wanted to put a question to everyone Everyone on this panel right now. Why do you think?

Society Tells women to make all these changes as opposed to going directly to the source of the problem. Like why is it always or? Make sure you pretend to be on the phone make sure you walk in a well lit road and the countless other protective Situations that they have to perform so that just in order for them to feel safe Why is it? Why are they not targeting? Why is there no targeting men? Like I can answer that.

Yeah Because for one a lot of what we Decide to do in society is actually dictated by men in the first place And the second thing is it's the easy route if there's a problem. You don't want to look within yourself You think okay, the problem is is exterior. How do we tackle the problem exteriorly rather than internally?

So I think That's where the solution needs to come from is where we need to start looking within ourselves rather than pointing the finger It's a blame game in it. If there's a problem with women we say well women are the solution They've got the problem.

They need to fix it They need to handle it and I think that's where I kind of have a little bit of an issue with not even an issue But a bit of a disagreement in terms of the topic that we're talking about where we say protecting our women because it seems like it's not I Don't want to stumble on my words, but it's like Like the best defense is a good offense. It's about attacking the problem.

Not just Protecting someone from the issue. It's not about what women have a problem.

Let's protect them from that I don't agree that we should be necessarily protecting our problem our women because We need to be attacking what is what we're protecting them from in the first place, which is us So rather than saying let's just protect them from men How about we attack the men that's giving us the problem in the first place or giving them the problem?

But in the question is how do you attack the men that are doing it? Let's be real if you were if you really wanted to dive in There's no way I think I think okay that I think the easiest answer to say that the the answer I would say to that is How do you expect to change the world if you don't change yourself?

Accountability for you to see a change in other people for you to see a change in other men As you said you need the accountability You need to be responsible for the actions that you're upholding because if you're willing to say to this guy Oh, don't do that to that woman, but you're doing the same thing How but you're not any better than he is So if we all take a responsibility and accountability to say I'm gonna make a change I'm gonna make a difference and if everybody does that then we will all make that change together What you said Simon is correct point the thing is way easier, but we're not working or we're not realizing it is actually Psychologically rooted in majority of men.

That's how bad it is right now It is psychologically rooted into men as to how they treat women to the point where men who Maybe started in school of objectifying women as hormones kicked in who then go into rape and murder is A dramatically different is is a deep-rooted issue to the point where they don't even see the problem to the point where when if if they had to be looked at their actions and They say like they object to my woman.

They will almost be like well, obviously That's my role.

That's how that's how deep-rooted So when we think about attack, I think the real the real thing is education educating a person on what they are unaware of and then when they are aware then they now have a choice to control it and It's weird because on the other side of this Some people are listening thinking how are men not aware like it's obvious I'm like you would be surprised how things how how our psychology and our mental works to the point where you'll be like Completely unaware of certain things that happen.

They said wait right and wrong is black and white, but it's not black and white, is it? so one of the things I would definitely like to say is School doesn't feel very far from where we are as an adult. Does it like when we came up from school? We just fell into the real world but there was no in-between as to how do you navigate yourself better or How does it look like when you're actually free to be as as you are?

It's not cute it's not cool in school anymore when you used to holler like there's a group of men that used to holler women Before or they were maybe a bit like they used to grab their hand when they walking past that was like It's just a joke right back then but now if he was an adult when did you transition to know that wasn't cool to do that and That is seen as almost assault today as an adult if you're over 18 that can be a rest That's an arrestable offense.

Yeah, but it was an educated Like there's so many things we still don't know There's so many things that we're just now getting our eyes open to because of things that social media Which is allowing information to be transmitted so quickly like the whole thing about the black lives matter movement that you could speak to a lot of white people who are ignorant on on that As well, and it's only now because they're starting to get educated and they're starting to see from our perspective Things are starting to change and it's the same thing with with the situation that we're talking about now We just need we need to have our eyes open to a lot of a lot of issues And it's unfortunate that a lot of people have to go through so much pain before we start seeing those things change like It has to take something drastic where someone gets killed for us to turn around and suddenly be like, how do we fix this?

I think the truth is somewhere in between both of what you said. I feel like attack and educate because I feel like I Think one without the other will result in in the same issue.

I think there's far too many people get in a way with what they're doing and I'll quick to we're quick to turn around on the women say but you know, like it reminds me of the whole the whole racist BLM movement where when people speak up about racism, there's always a But our but what did he say or what did he do?

And that's what they're doing with the whole women and it's turning their back on them They were before they even get to the courts of prosecution. No one even takes it seriously. It's always a but what was she wearing?

Yeah You know I'm saying so I feel like It we need to take it more seriously and by doing that I feel like we need to do a bit of both We need to educate especially people coming up through the schools and and the youth that are coming up Be our age one day we need to educate in that sense But also the people who are ready out of school the people who are really on the streets the people who are really Actively committing these crimes day in day out Because they that you will find with these kind of crimes.

They're very Repeatable like there's hardly any what any any girl that will tell you I was only me like the guy She may talk to other women and it's like yeah, he's known for this.

He's done this They repeat offenses so we need to attack The situation when it comes to the justice system and all that and kind of love to say we don't stand for it But also we do need to educate the youth coming through as well I feel like you know, I feel like a lot of guys now Reason why we're having I feel like a reason why a lot of guys are having a hard time dealing with this because they know This is gonna involve a lot of their male friends And we are not ready for that kind of conversation I don't feel like a lot of men are ready for that kind of conversation When it comes to how to protect women because I see comments and guys are like, but what do you mean that same thing?

What then was it? What was she wearing? Did I did a dollar? She probably asked for it? It's like how do you how do you ask for that? How do you ask for a man to touch you because your your skirt is probably an inch above your kneecap? Please enlighten me where it says touch me Like you shouldn't have to feel a way about wearing an item of clothing Like you shouldn't have to especially in this day and age.

I don't feel like it is a problem It's everywhere social media shows it and then we see it. So what is the issue with it? Like that's where and that's why I guess I can elaborate on my word that I brought up about entitlement. It wasn't necessarily About saying we're entitled to do those things is that we're not we think we are When we talk about education education can be the attack Education can be the attack.

It doesn't necessarily mean attackers in anything physical and attack can be we're attacking people with this education They need to know this knowledge They need to understand what we're saying to them and we're gonna go forcefully to make sure they're educated on what is going on The problem that we have to be fair.

There's so many problems There's so many different elements and aspects to what we can say contributed to our Mentally, I'm not even gonna say certain men because I'm sure at one point or another we've all felt a sense of entitlement with women So I will take responsibility for that as well those those things and the kind of the circles that we're around and the things that we consume whether it's through social media whether it's few through like The particular women that we interact with think well if this woman is one way that means all women are that way It's not even a disrespect to that particular woman someone one woman might be quite promiscuous and they might be quite flirtatious or whatever But just because you think okay, you've got an entitlement to touch her whatever and she allows you to do that And she's given you permission to do that.

I'm not whatever reason I don't know the woman but just because one person does it What makes you think that all of the women can do that you can do that. No, that's not how it works Yeah, everyone's their own individual.

So that's where the education needs to come into play Stop thinking that you can do what you want when you want how you want just because you're a man One woman's allowed you to do it They thought you can do it to everybody because if someone did that to you, you would have a problem with it You know, I love the fact. I love the fact that you said Before we can tackle this problem.

We need to look within ourselves And that obviously goes back to accountability One of the key things about it of Talking to my thoughts is the fact that we are not necessarily Conceptualized and outside we are actually bringing it inside.

So the four of us are going to explore how we've done it This is gonna be the hard now Education, I'm gonna speak three different things sexual harassment assault and rape culture Three very very key ones. So sexual harassment is unwanted behavior of a sexual nature Which violates your dignity makes you feel intimidated Degraded or humiliated creates a hostile or offensive environment.

That's sexual harassment sexual assault is an act in which a person is intentionally sexually and touches another person without that person's consent or courses or physically or forces a person to engage in a sexual act against their will and Then the third one is rape culture very this one listen closely rape culture is a sociological concept for a setting when in which rape is Pervasive and normalized due to Societal attitudes about gender and sexuality now.

This doesn't sound much like us, right? You probably think maybe countries like where they have really really bad rape culture in this part Behaviors commonly associated with victim blaming slut-shaming sexual objectification tribalizing rape denial of widespread rape refusing to acknowledge the harm caused by sexual violence or some combination of these Now that part is mad.

I was like from the time it did the objectification Mm-hmm. You already knew what time it was Now I'm gonna speak my part first Before we get so when we get to yours Denzel, we'll give you your voice note and we'll go from there for my part first objectification and That goes in many forms. So let's let the audience really take this in everybody.

Listen very closely Especially for men objectification is simple as being able to just see a woman and not acknowledge her as a human being but simply see her as boobs, but and Good legs, for example as simple as that That is simply liking sharing Bluetooth in your pictures back in the day having news and sharing of your boys Sharing videos all around where we're back in the day was like in back in the days I'm at McDonald's videos where people only had Bluetooth.

They were just sharing people This is objectification. It's mad, right?

Yeah This is objectification a man screenshot in a woman's picture Sending it to you and you giving a rating and not asking what she's what the person's like a man pointing on the side of the in a dancehall says oh she looked good and Then he says a comment which isn't just that she looks good that he's always trying to get that grab that or Objectification and grab that is also what he intends to do which is sexual harassment And then you say let me know how it goes At work if work ban to have other men man them talking about certain women and they like the most objectification sharing The like the ins and outs of you and the woman that you didn't that's not your even if it's your wife or not your wife or just that you had sex with the person would be a Sexual harassment is an unwanted behavior of a sexual nature which violates your dignity Basically what this is saying is Not say like without being an idiot.

It's basically say men can't really say much Like no, there's levels to what you can and class as a comment Yeah now I'm not saying I Believe that we need to cut it away entirely but there is a massive imbalance of Elevating a woman this objectifying her so yes We have eyes women have eyes. We have a sexual harassment to about women.

Sometimes we will see before we hear that's Like you're gonna see you're gonna see her and say I wonder what job she does You're gonna see her before you hear her. Mm-hmm But the imbalance is dramatic Really listening to what a woman is about what they are as a human being and that's where I believe the problem is we're going To make the comments.

That's natural when you're in the club You ain't got time to be getting a whole book out. What's your personality like before I get this dance with you?

It's not like that's let's be real but when you do Suddenly get into the conversations with deep conversations of your boy or deep conversations with a woman You should start looking beyond the objectification because I believe there's a you're feeding something inside of you What men think by Devin Franklin the other book way says that you're basically I told you about It's good.

It's called feeding the dog the dog in men's which is a lust for power sex recognition ego all the stuff like that and Like a dog if you do not train it It can bite people can attack you it can run wild But if you hold the leash and you train it and tame it you won't have this same issue And I think there's a lack of taming go ahead you said something key there and I want to just reiterate and emphasize that point is that when you said it's not about eradicating it because as you said We're all even women are gonna have a sexual attraction we as men Filled the entitlement and have the power to enforce Beyond that so it's difference between having a sexual attraction and just looking at a woman and saying are she looks nice, you know Wait, no, I'm saying and then there's a difference between that and going up to them and slapping their ass Women can look at men and be like he's hot, you know She ain't going over to the man and smacking his ass I Think is to be clear is that when we're thinking about objectification or having that mentality of having an attraction and seeing them before as You said thinking about them as a person in certain respects it's almost human to feel like that because you're gonna have an attraction to people but It's what you do beyond that.

Yeah. No, you're right. It's the it's the act upon the the thought basically Let's get into it before we get who we get too deep in it why everyone thinks Denzel you want to? Bring up your voice note. So this is the second part where Denzel have his thoughts about this particular topic And then we will explore it from there. So we need to unpack this What women are going through at a moment?

I mean Scrap that not even at the moment what women have always gone through It needs to be unpacked needs to be spoken about I think the easiest thing to do is say I'm a man Oh, you know, I'm not really qualified to talk on this topic and while Wallace there's a level of truth in that While we can never sort of understand it from a woman's perspective while we never have to walk in a woman's shoes.

I Feel like it's our duty to do that And to educate ourselves And to have the conversation and not shy away from it because at the end of the day, it's our species that are The ones that are committing these heinous crimes and It's for us to fix or at least for us to check people around us You know people drop in snide comments ingest Maybe you you've never thought of it Maybe even you've heard it your boy maker kind of a sly comment that's on the edge But you thought he's not gonna do that.

He's not like that. I know him Where I think would I have to stop now if you ever hear any of your man them any of them that needs to be You know shut down quick, but this is a deeper topic that we need to unpack.

I need to educate Myself others around me and walk the level of awareness that maybe I never had before Yeah We need some patterns It's actually mad It's actually I feel like we can be here like And still have so much more that we have to tackle Trying to unpack it is is difficult but as with anything that's important, it's gonna be difficult It's not gonna be easy.

If it was easy, it would have been done by now in it I'll Hold my hands up and say in the past. I have been responsible for For those actions Like even just the examples that Craig was throwing out and he was like, okay, this is what this means This what that means.

I was like raw Million or just slimy that was if we just ignore this have a quick conversation and be like cool move on ignore it Unfortunately, just the circumstances and the things that have been happening as of recent they ain't gonna stop so Denzel one thing that you brought up is about you said, okay, I need to educate myself But not just myself the people around me as well That's the important thing about how we're gonna tackle this and how we're gonna attack it with education When you see sign Open up your mouth man.

You need to be able to put put your foot down and be like bro We need to talk cuz that that's not that ain't how you should be moving It's not even just saying you know what because you've done that I'm gonna cut you off It's like because then you're still not educating them Yeah, they're learning it's easy for you to say, you know, I ain't even moving with him because he's like this but that ain't changing him and Then good like for who we know he could be doing the same thing with a couple of other bread dreams Or he could have a son be teaching his son the same thing How are we gonna change the narrative if we're not as I said tackling and attacking the issue with education?

We need to pull it up man quickly Just to jump in there Craig could you could you?

Talk a little bit about What we spoke about on the phone maybe a week ago when you was talking about men's privilege I'll pull it up so everyone could understand in recent days I'm hearing about how sexual harassment is not reported in the office because it's unlikely to be heard or even worse is turned on its Head and becomes a woman's problem I've read about how another woman was sexually abused on the same evening in the same park as Sarah But she wasn't going to report it because what would it what would be done?

I'm ashamed to say how naive I've been as to how unsafe women feel in the world. We live in I Also can't sit here and deny my privilege. I haven't suffered like women do because of men I can't put myself into the same Into the pain and fear women experience without justice ever been served what I hope I can do is Be on board for positive change Why?

Denzel pulled that one up in particular was he used the word privilege When I told her privilege, it's usually in regards to white privilege and that's a typical thing That's been going especially in the last year around racism And I know men have privilege in the world Especially in the economic world around jobs and salaries and promotions and good and stuff like that But I've never really worried too much about women on that part because I feel like women have been finding their way to find their own creating their own business their miniseries entrepreneurs But he used privilege in the context of just living lit like just Think about this the sexual like a person being sexually harassed or not is the difference between a woman dying or not If it's just a bad day or bad person or etc, he's privileged in the world of just living just being on the earth And what that hit me?

Why did it hit me?

I've never associated myself with privilege in the sense of living Because as an adult, I don't have a problem with another man coming up to me and potentially gonna stab me Like that's the odds of that is super low now, but a woman has increased their odds That now that they're older and they look more grown they're more likely to get sexually harassed And if anything other boys who maybe were in different areas that didn't have so much crime, etc They maybe didn't experience any of this approaching of being stabbed or getting mugged or anything like that Especially if you wasn't in our area.

I Feel like and I was saying this the other day to my cousin like when we were younger like younger younger I Think about it. We used to watch Disney films and want to Like be a king and protect our princesses like be a king We wanted to be that and you could see that I used to watch my nephews as I was growing up like holding like Their cousins hands and all these things.

It was done naturally as we've got older That is just disappeared because as parents were not educating Those small things for us to carry going forward, it's just got worse and worse and worse Something that's small. You don't realize can have such an impact and it has done because as we've got older We're not as emotional as we've got older when we was kids.

Look how emotional was we probably got upset from watching Lion King we've got removed from all those kind of things and I feel like as Men when it comes to dealing with women The privilege that we have that we don't care mentality where we can wave it off because there's always another fish in the pond that has to stop and I feel like once we can get rid of like that hole.

There's always someone better out there and Oh, she treats that out.

Let's do them equal like we as men are really Backwards in that way of thinking as well Like that privilege thing actually hit home for me very very hard because I didn't realize that I had until Craig said that Yeah, no, um the privilege Reason why I poked at it is because just like you Ryan when Craig said it to me on the phone like Five days ago something I was like because I never ever ever as Associated myself as when I was a youth and especially as and I think this is very cultural and Because as he said, we're all For black men growing up in a certain part of London where a lot of crime took place And so all you would see pretty much on the news Week in week out was another black boy stabbed another black boy robbed another black boy mugs for his foe and another like so In my in my mind You know stepping out as a as a young man and a young black man As a as a young man and a young black man like that was Dangerous.

It was like we we would in my mind with endangered species We were the ones that were you know, we constantly see across the news All kinds of mothers grieving and all this kind of stuff and and i'm sure all of your moms or parents at some point You know, be careful, you know, don't go there. Don't stay out too late.

Don't do this But I was never really hearing the narrative about What women were going through, you know at the same time and as I said to Craig on the phone I said You know, it's you know, it's mad Like it's not that they weren't going through it.

We just never knew Women were protecting themselves all along, but we never we were never aware of this and so now that we have a A level of awareness and this is crazy What like when Craig said it to me is crazy because man's a big man now Like and I never gave it a second or four That at that age actually what was going on with women?

Like how many of them were and and i'm sure a lot of us have like few more friends now that we can We've spoken to and we've maybe learned a bit about other experience bro the amount of girls women That have been through sexual assault is is a solid like it's crazy like like they've all got stories I know if you work in the city because i've worked in there before i'm sure one of you guys have probably worked up there before You've walked past building sites or walked around the city And see what the men are like with the women out there like I fully believe that like it.

Yeah, it didn't even make me question it Do you know with that so that with so the whistle calling again is a very different thing to That's actually not sexual harassment assault or rape culture funny enough but um I want to pick up on this piece here because I again we're not saying that When your boy sees you like in our culture because we don't wish what we don't really wish to call.

I'm not a builder Like in a dance in a dance hall when you when you see a girl and whatever you say So like you're shouting out to her. That's kind of like a that's a whistical. Basically, that's not bad. That's not wrong cat calling Sorry, that's not bad But the second part comes like simon says it's the entitlement that if she does not take you on Says no or whatever is your reaction to that afterwards?

Because you can catcall a woman could call your name could call you cute cheeks. Whatever they want to call you But it's the it's the reaction afterwards like let's say she let's imagine a woman like Shouts at you you ignore her or you say nah And she she starts getting aggressive. You're gonna be like This is uh, what world is this?

Yeah I was probably In many respects more aware of it Than I would say the three of you because i've got two girls I've got two kids And they're both girls so It's it's such a and the reason why I say it's such a weird thing that I kind of thought about in one way but not in another because As we're talking about protecting our women the moment I had a girl I was like As a child you want to protect them, but more importantly because they're a girl You feel a sense of you have to protect them even more but I didn't necessarily apply that to myself And it's only when we started talking about this that I realized I'm almost protecting them from Me And how I was Which is a scary thing That's a it is a very scary thing because even now like my my eldest she's going to secondary school this year, bro Bro, when you told me that I was like I was just about to ask you that as of what age Listen And I know already Uh, I don't even want to talk about it because it's gonna get into my feelings about the boys and all sorts But it's just like I feel as even just as a parent, but especially because she's a girl I need to protect her from the things that are out there knowing that there's been women in my life who have been affected by Assault and other things in the past.

It's like and even just the things that you see on the news the things that's happened recently It's like Not my child Not my child, but at the same time as I said, it's like Am I really thinking about how I can change that within myself as well? bro the fact that you because a lot of people say are like what men because We externalize to solve problems in our lives and to to to pass blame.

We externalize So we're like, oh like I was thinking about my daughters and then you could have just changed it Like now i'm thinking about how I need how I need to educate other men to treat them nice But then you literally just brought it back on yourself.

You just you internalize it you said I you how I would protect my daughters from men like me me Now that's crazy Yeah, but that's like really and it's powerful that before though Oh, you say sorry.

I said that's the part of accountability that he took to know that he was like that before though Exactly, and this is For for the to to to basically fight against or attack the entitlement in us We need to create accountability, yeah Um The word the key word to me is authority The point is if a man Or woman believe that the person that they're speaking to is at their level or above They would never they wouldn't treat them with disrespect Let's say for example, we went into the open world as kids Right and our employer is female or interviewer is female There has really been a case that we could probably think that we was our mind was focused solely on what we could what we see What we think of that woman?

We just really wanted to get that job Because of authority Let's take a police woman even though it was not many we have probably haven't been approached by police woman much our aunties A granny like really much older um What other places women are in authority or like some type of authoritarian to us?

Like a judge or something a judge a judge is a great one Like if you're especially if you're about to be in court, you ain't about to say hey Until he's looking around like you ain't gonna say You ain't gonna say that So I but there's something in your head It's possible everybody has the control to do it, but it's the how they see the woman Is maybe around that and also how you treat other people is actually a massive reflection of yourself anyway It's two ways about it because we're looking at about how do we protect them and Do a hundred percent agree on what we've discussed is is tackling the issue head-on, which is men But there's there's still a level of empowerment that we need to give to our women as well um by Not objectifying them By allowing them to be who they want to be i'm a heavy believer in equality in it I believe that a woman should be able to do whatever they want to do Just like a man should be able to do whatever they want to do They dress how they want to dress go where they want to do do what they want to do.

I understand in reality We don't allow that to happen But I think that we need to start empowering them to be able to do that And I think that's another key thing that's going to help break that cycle is educating our men our boys And empowering our women our young girls as well I think maybe the way we've taught we were taught empowerment in the world.

Maybe it was all wrong Because the way we talk teach women empowerment has really produced some amazing women today if the last generation The last generation that we've had of new mothers and daughters coming up in the world who see themselves completely different In a sense and they're very expressive but men I wouldn't say we've really traveled very far in the sense of expression We still just try to fit ourselves into society's way of empowerment and ticking off the boxes So yeah, there's a lot there's a lot to unpack.

There's gonna be a whole a whole seminar I have one last question. I have one last question though Um, because these are all came from different social circles in a sense How do you feel your social circle? Um influenced I guess mistreating women if you feel that it did it there was a link Uh social circle, what would make myself I don't have social circles I had black men. That's it.

I wasn't I was in different things There's there's like uh friend groups friend groups. You can just say yes.

So sport groups gym groups um Uh, I guess I guess well because I know you denzel it'll be dance groups simon would be MC as you as you used to mc before so artists Every each one of those fields when you rise to the top of them there comes a level of empowerment Just by being good at them or good in your field because a lot of people you hear on the come up on the journey Of the come up in many different Uh, I guess fields Whether you're doing music whether you're doing Performing arts whether you're doing whatever you're doing is all a case of Head down make your money and the women will come You know, it's always it's it's always about the women will come because of the money and at the end of the day that all leads back into exactly what um What craig was saying about empowerment and how we teach it So if we're telling youngers and we're telling you know, like people are younger than us or little cousins or brothers or And the main spearheading is saying i'll get money so we so you can get women You know We're already in stealing.

Um them as trophies like women are already objectified just by Being trophies that they come with money when things are on that's crazy.

I feel like We like to get to that level You had It was a massive gap And this is this is the interesting part We faked it until we even made it some of us didn't make it like jacob said it best like fake it then I made it Because yeah, we're not even at that level yet and we're doing that Before we even got there like let's be real.

We're doing that and talking about the industries that we're in We're nobodies There's someone coming from we're not at the top of the game and we were doing that. So imagine what?

Yeah, like Yeah exactly You know what the mad thing is though if we've clocked it because craig said We all come was all like around different social circles Everything music dance entertainment sports They're all male dominated Which is why there ain't no difference between any of them There's no difference because how can it be different if they're all dominated by the same type of people? What do we expect?

Like let's be honest, what do we expect? You know, what's interesting about this is that it almost this is what's interesting Yeah, almost anything we think of we have to go into niche So what I was thinking what I was thinking I was like, oh what about that's crazy What about I was gonna say wellness?

Yeah, like wellness and stuff like that But that's not true I would have to go to yoga like I have to go into the Yoga is not even true either because it's all male leaders mostly Most of it's male That's crazy.

I didn't know that That sounded like a Idiot or sexist pig like I can't think of anything else Oh, man, okay We need to go back to Wait, wait, oh, but that comes under I was gonna say I was gonna say cuz mix but A lot of the surgeons Okay, yes what so so what what the key part about that is It's a man's driven world And if you're going to take care of it where it is equal for all then it should be taken care of properly and Have respect instilled into it And if you're not going to take care of it, then you should relinquish it which men very unlikely relinquish power so for those kind of listening who are in these different industries my if you feel that this has steered you And you want to do your part in protecting women or your daughters or your friends Even your friends remember this even your partner Then Take responsibility within your own industry or the places that you have influence, which is pretty much anywhere that you step foot into Stand up for what you believe should be right should be said correctly Maybe shouldn't be condoned And even silence is still a form of Acceptance, but you obviously you choose your bowels in the ways that you want to kind of talk about it.

So Yeah, I guess so Right by the end that conversation. I was like, wow, it's just male dominated We really got it. Maybe it is time. It is just time to attack stack all the men Because this is this isn't gonna If he was gonna say change it by industry to industry bro, like all the industries are run by men You're just falling off into niches.

Let's be real even if we looked at CEOs of most of these companies Probably man I'm happy that I read this conversation and i'm also happy that Everyone on the panel can could look inside themselves and acknowledge How they've contributed because what i've also we've seen A lot of in the last two weeks probably Um is the hashtag not me like when a lot of guys are just responding with kind of a very similar to the all lives matter responses into black lives matter and um, I think anyone who's Who wants to have the conversation anyone listening?

like please Step outside yourself because that response is so It's dismissive. It's so dismissive. It's so selfish and And it's not about you get it. Like I think every single woman knows that it's not a man That's not the point here. And the point is to because as we've just discovered, yeah We're not we're not malicious characters.

We're not people that are doubt Have you know those kind of crimes but even down to the smaller finer? Mental objectifications and stuff like that. We're all guilty.

Yeah all of us so I feel like When you want to have this conversation Accept that Yeah, and accept that and then you can go from there Too many men are reactionary about everything and our egos sort of control the narrative Louder because it's not about us. It's not about us.

If someone was to tell you the rape culture thing Every man will say i'm not a part of it Yeah, and as soon as you dig deep and like what craig done As soon as he started knocking certain things everyone's face like changing with certain things that were coming I know guys will still say no I know I don't and it's like bro The alpha male needs to come down and actually chill Take a step outside the box and like like you said denzel like Look at the bigger picture and realize that everyone is sitting inside the box women are trapped And it would have to be from the generation of starting now.

We've got to change it So when we're gone, they are they've created a whole new wave that these topics of conversations won't ever have to bury Again So this is the part of the podcast where we pull some questions from our listeners and any that we do not get to today Um, we'll get through to you through the social media or we'll talk about in another time first question is Oh, man Do men think about how a woman feels when they walk past a group of men on their own?

And men are cat calling or attempting to grab their arm I do That's why i'm never in that's why i'm never I'm around the people that don't do that because I I think about those things like We all know what well again, I can't speak for everyone, but I know How that would make?

I don't know my mom feel my sister feel my daughter's feel So that's the thing that mad thing about is that how you could as a man, how can you even treat a female? A certain way knowing you have a mom You have an auntie you have a sister. You may have a daughter eventually in life. How can you treat a woman like that? That's how me personally that's how I would see it.

I don't think personally Men actually take into consideration how women feel because we do not like rejection We don't like rejection and the reason why I'll say that is because like I've been in and around people and I even I can even say in my social circles I can I can put my hand up and say I would never see my social circle Like my close boys do that when they're sober But I feel like when guys get drunk Your your alter ego actually starts to come up So we start to shift pattern and these things that we see people doing it's like why can't I do it then?

and we do these stupid things and it's like I've never dragged a woman by her arm, but I can Say I'd probably touch inappropriately to try and grab someone's attention It's not it doesn't make it right, but it's like You do it and it's like well Where did that come from? And it's like if alcohol can put me in that state of over.

I'm not putting myself there and I feel like That is a massive thing within the Caribbean culture and the community as well. Like it is a massive issue It is a massive issue Like next question. Oh This is the interesting one as a man If you was walking at night time And the woman you was behind another woman.

It was just you and her Do you sometimes feel a bit Unease and feel like you have to walk like on the other side of the road or avoid them or walk really fast or walk extremely slow to avoid them I I pick up on this I pick up a random across the road I take my hood off like I don't like I proper just try and get out of your way because I don't I feel uneasy being that close to you because I know what goes on Yeah, I know what go I just keep my distance and I feel like Even if I would make make my face visible like Move across the road just she's still gonna feel on edge Yeah Regardless, she's still gonna feel on edge No matter what I do, she's still gonna feel on edge But that's the right thing to do I think I think that I feel the same as well.

I do literally all the same thing as Ryan just said If I've If I've got more hood up And a lot of times what will happen is sometimes sometimes obviously I'll I'll be maybe listen to my music So i'm not really paying attention to my surroundings or who's in front of me or whatever.

I'm just kind of zoned out But what will happen is you might get that little shoulder look Like a woman would do like if she feels like somebody's behind her you might get a little shoulder look like that as soon as I see that i'm I just snap back in oh, yeah, like I'm too close or like whatever. I'll take my hood off or as Ryan said, I'll literally speed up.

I'll Even that even that makes me feel a bit weird because because it feels like In her mind, she's probably thinking why is he walking fast?

Like so I'll either do one or two things which is yeah across the road speed up and then cross back when i'm when i'm kind of in front of her or like If the pavement is wide enough I'm trying to go as wide as possible and then speed up So she knows that you know, i'm not i'm not trying to come up behind her and do do anything so my answer to that is I don't and I think you I don't to be honest, and I think the reason why is because I'm not conscious of I'm not conscious of How the woman feels in that scenario because I do it to whoever is I'm conscious of so what do you when you said you don't what do you mean you don't what wait sam?

I don't do evasive maneuvers because i'm walking behind a woman I when i'm walking when someone i'm walking next to someone I have a walk past them or I slow down And let them walk ahead no matter who you do. So you so you do But here what i'm saying to you It's not evasive maneuvers where you're saying across the road speed up and then cross back. I don't do any of that Well, that's just a method.

It's just It's not being conscious of them being a woman it's just for me the way I conceptualize it is that I'm very much about personal space as well. So I don't want to be You're saying you do it you're saying you do it in general in general anybody Because they're women not because they're women I see.

Okay Because the same way you looked at denzel is that why is this person walking behind me so close For so long. Yeah, like i'm i'm about personal space. So i'll be conscious of that No matter who they are So i'm either walking past you or i'm slowing down to let you walk ahead But it's not oh my god, there's a woman and it's nighttime. I'm walking behind them.

Let me do an evasive maneuver That doesn't cross my mind at all. Okay, it's just like let me not be in their personal space Whoever it is. I don't want to be in your personal space. You know what? Yeah Yeah, no, I I agree at first I thought you were saying that I just I just I just don't I follow man in it.

I follow man It's funny because when you said that I looked at everyone else's face For those who don't know simon, yeah His original mc name was frowns because this man is he always has frowns on his face Yeah, unless he's laughing and so he is the worst one to be following you at night Because of that so that's why he avoids everybody because he knows his face Yes Anyway guys this has been One hell of a conversation, uh very much needed and i'm very very thankful that we all had it together Um, thank you everybody for friends sending your questions and thank you for everyone for listening as well um It's been a long one, but actually I do want to do a quick food for thought Uh, I guess one thing from each person to really just sum up What with Everything the whole the whole black but we just opened the box now the box was like someone said who put the toys back in Because right now we don't know what to do so Um, we're gonna ask for a food for thought which is basically just a kind of summary or what we've taken away from it From each one of us um, so for me Um With power comes great responsibility and I think there is a level of Um us understanding respect I stick to the word that I used at the beginning which was royalty If you had someone like you don't have to say someone that's role in your family Your mom and your dad that you used to treat as a king or queen, especially if he was brought up with them See how you can bring that same respect to everybody And people say oh respect is earned.

No, no, no like human beings just deserve respect as a whole think about yourself, you wouldn't want to be treated like Some kind of object that is dragged around imagine there's a big woman that drags you around and harasses you or slaps you Or potentially even rapes you or stuff and that's real Men do get raped in this day and age and it's not about that part But just imagine that being the case just don't condone any of it if you can Okay 100 i'll say for me the food for thought I guess for myself and for the listeners is Perspective Perspective you just kind of touched on it is And I I generally try and do this as much as I can in any circumstances thinking about well, what if it's you?

Like don't be so dismissive Like just don't be so dismissive What if it was you? What if it was your mom? What if it was your sister? What if it was your daughter? like think about How you can make a change?

And that change is going to start from you that's it I'll say mine will be Education and learning to be an outside thinker And the reason why I say an outside thinker I feel like we as men look too much at Our own narrative as possible like we just think everything we do is perfect and we live within our own rights so I feel like We need to take a step outside the box of a lot of things and think about Think like others think like women That would be the that would be my my thing Start to think about the opposite think how the opposite sex will feel What I said in the beginning for my part was my key word was listen I feel like um Listen to women actually.

Um, you know even as you come to the end of this podcast Go away, maybe and talk to some females in your life Uh people that are close to you and also about their experiences have they experienced such things? Um, I feel like only then when there's people Closer to you closer to home Um, whether that's a lover mother uh Sister whatever it is Don't be uncomfortable. You have to get comfortable with the uncomfortable.

You know what i'm saying? So at the end of the day Listen and learn And then think about how you can apply it to yourself and others around you That's powerful man, that's powerful, um Again massive. Thank you for everyone getting this fine to the to the podcast. Thank you all everybody Uh for this conversation.

It was a very very key topic and once again as you always know Talking to my thoughts is a platform And it's not just about us talking to you, um And it's really not how we solve problems we talk about it with each other and create these kind of spaces for everybody as well, so Feel free to ask us questions to open up about some of your own experiences um Talk about stuff that you may want to discuss and maybe if you want to us to extend this further We will be extending it further.

There will be more from this topic Because this is just really the beginning for us if you want to talk about certain things or get involved then feel free to Just email us or message us or whichever one so If you enjoyed the podcast and want to do something to help us out Please consider liking sharing and remember to follow us at talking to my thoughts to stay up to date with all our new content Thank you everybody for listening.

Thank you to all of our guests. Thank you simon as always And everyone just be safe Be vigilant and Be respectful