EP 32 | Reclaiming my identity (Ft Dan)

SJ: And a lot of people think it's selfish. Like what you do in your you have a family, you have two kids, you have a partner like why you why you out with your friends or something, like what you doing, like your your kids at home. But actually no, I need to I need that for me to then order to give back to them.

Like I can't be constantly, as I said, trying to pour into myself and it's just getting emptied again because it's it's it's draining, emotionally just draining, it's taxing, like there's so many things that you're you're unable to do as a provider because you just you you you're lost for capacity.

Craig Riviere: Welcome to Talking to My Thoughts, the podcast where we have open, honest, and raw conversations with a twist. We bring a unique perspective on our thoughts by literally pre-recording the things that are on our mind before talking about them with the group. We do this because we believe before you can be open with others, you first have to be open with yourself.

Make sure to stay up to date with all our content by following us on our socials at TalkintoMyForts. And make sure you guys listen till the end to hear our responses to some of your thought-provoking questions. My name is Craig. SJ: My name is SJ, and today we're joined by our guest, Daniel. Please introduce yourself, man. Dan: Yeah, so my name is Dan. I'm originally from East London.

Yeah, man, thank you for having me on. Appreciate it. SJ: All good for. Craig Riviere: We'd love to have you on. but before we get into the conversation, we would like to give our listeners an opportunity to get to know our guests a little bit better and start on the front foot by answering the first question. This is called Cards on the Table. Shameless plug.

We have a pack of our conversation cards soon available on Talkingtomythoughts.com so we're going to ask you a question and basically SJ will flick through the cards, Daniel, and you just basically say stop and he'll pick a card for you for you to answer. You already get to go? SJ: Yeah. So I'll just flip through the car, just tell me when to stop, yeah. Cool. Stop. All right.

So the question is, what have what have most people yet to learn about relationships? Dan: You know what? Yeah. As I was like, because I live on the main road, I had all kinds of madness. Today, I was hearing different kind of, like, that's why your mum's this and SJ: He's Dan: that's why your dad left you. And like, it's crazy, isn't it? But what people don't understand is how relationships can...

develop between other people. say for example, you're looking at a daughter or a child or for example, son and their parents are not together. They need to learn that it's so complicated at times that, you know, it's hard to kind of like have a good relationship with the child that's absent.

You know, it could be detrimental to the child eventually, at the end of the day, they need to realize that it takes a family, well, it takes a village to raise a child, you know what mean? Not just one person. shouldn't be any AIA Nation going into, I'm a big advocate of, know, co-parenting and both-parent households. Craig Riviere: You, man. I appreciate it.

I think that's a good insight for people to kind of get a bit of a feel about what matters to you, some of your core beliefs, and just probably how you navigate your life on a day-to-day basis. So I'm sure we're gonna have a very good conversation on this topic today. So the topic today is reclaiming my identity.

This is addressing the isolation and identity shift that occurs when men transition to seeing their children part-time. How do you rebuild a sense of self? Manage loneliness and maintain your mental health on the days you aren't actively parenting. right. So let's let's dig a little di bit deeper and kick off our first thoughts.

And we'll as you know on Talk to My Thoughts, we always kick off s with a pre recording from our guests. In this particular case, it'll be one from SJ, our co founder and co host, and also one from Daniel, our guest as well. We'll start with SJ and just take a close listen. Thanks for that, SJ. That's a deep thought, man. I was almost SJ: Yeah.

Craig Riviere: I was almost like right there in the house just watching you coke and you just it was just by yourself. Not even in a bad SJ: Yeah. Craig Riviere: way. I was just like, yeah, it's just I was there in the room with you. you listening back to it, what came up for you?

SJ: it's interested being in that space and and kind of recording that voice note and really being deep in your thoughts and then almost being like the third person, the fly in the wall, just hearing or watching that person speak. It gives you a different perspective on yourself, which is crazy. Like me listening to that.

One of the things that I was thinking to myself when I was like I think I said something about you kind of giving your all to the family and then just being lost when you're when you're not in that space anymore. But I just I just think to myself, you was you was always a person. Like you was always an individual. You was always you always had ambition.

You always had things that you wanted to do before the kids even was here. Like when you was born and you you went through school and you made friends and you started your first job before all of that happened, you had you had an idea about your life and how your life wanted to be and wanted to play out and what gave you happiness and what gave you peace.

And then obviously you have a family and those things change but actually a lot of what you had thought about and developed in yourself before your family became about is still within you. It's still instilled in you. Those things don't go away. They don't they don't stop making you happy. It's just that you you your priorities change and your priorities and your focus become your family, become your kids.

And so it's interesting to think that when that is then not lost because you don't if we're talking about co-parenting, you're not you haven't says essentially lost your kid, but you don't have that family unit anymore and think it's a different it's a different dynamic.

But when you're in a space where you're alone and you're really trying to think about well, who am I and reclaiming my identity, that that kind of already existed. You just you just forgot who that person was. And it's really about actually trying to remind yourself who am I or who do I want to be? And it's not just as an individual anymore, but there's an addition to that.

It's it's it's that person before the kids, but then it's also in addition to now you have kids, how can I make that person better for them, if that makes sense. Like what else can I do to make yes, make me happy, but then I also have other people to think about. How do I make them happy? And then what are the additional things I can do without losing myself?

without losing myself completely and really finding or navigating that. And one of the one of the key things I guess I brought up in in in that voice note was about capacity. Because when you're in that space of being in a family unit, you quite naturally as a provider give your all and you put that stuff on the back burner. But now you're co parenting and you've got more time to yourself.

It's actually Yes, a lot of people can take it as as quite a a detrimental thing and and I completely understand that because you want to be with your kids. You it's it's a natural thing, right? But actually there's also an opportunity there to your capacity is different now. You have the opportunity to give back to yourself.

You have the opportunity to really create a different sense of self and a sense of peace and happiness that you wasn't able to before because you had put that stuff to the side. So yeah, for me it was just really just I guess acknowledging that and really trying to understand that better, just hearing hearing that voice note back and realizing that actually it's not it's not even coming from a selfish space.

It's not even coming from a space of like, well, I don't have them anymore. I'm just gonna think about me. But actually it's like you you we are still just people. We are still men, we are still individuals and we we all have our own kind of goals, ambitions and things that we want to do regardless of whether you have kids or not.

And actually really about how you're able to attain that and how you're able to make yourself happy, but also in the long run being able to still provide for your kids. And just thinking about the dynamics of of what that looks like and how you do that. so for me it was just it was it it's difficult, emotionally difficult, it's confusing, it's draining, it's it's there's a lot going on.

But also I I guess for me it is it's also just re really reassessing and taking it as an opportunity to then give back to myself. And that's yeah, that's my thought. Craig Riviere: Well I guess to give context to our listeners as well, I'm somebody speaking who who's not a father yet, so no kids and not co parent or all. and then obviously your father free.

Like when I listened to it, it was I my question for Right is like, Well why did you lose your identity in the first place? And is that what it really takes for you to end up being a father in a h a household altogether? And I guess you can't you can't you probably can't answer that question. or you may you never maybe never thought about that before. and it took co-perating for you to get yourself back.

And it's weird, it's interesting to me, of course, because you have to be a person for you to give back to you like your cup has to be full to give back. But I know in Berlin it's not as easy as keeping your cup full and it and giving back. SJ: not bro. That's what I was talking about capacity. It's not bro. The capacity is different, bruv.

The capa when you got a cup and it's like, okay, you're trying to fill it and then as soon as you feel it, someone's drinking at the cup, it's like, yo, I haven't even finished filling the cup yet. Like what's going on there? Are you drinking my drink? I ain't finished filling it up yet. That's that's what it feels like. It's like Craig Riviere: Yeah.

SJ: you can give back to yourself and then it goes and then give back it's like when am I ever gonna get this cup to be full?

And sometimes selfishly even like I think people a lot of people look at it and I've I've started to learn this even like again being in in different family dynamics as well and and obviously just for context like I have one child from one relationship and two kids from another relationship and the differences between that is w in my second relationship I really understood actually I need to give back to myself.

And it's not coming from a place where a lot of people think it's selfish. Like what you do in your you have a family, you have two kids, you have a partner like why you why you out with your friends or something, like what you doing, like your your kids at home. But actually no, I need to I need that for me to then order to give back to them.

Like I can't be constantly, as I said, trying to pour into myself and it's just getting emptied again because it's it's it's draining, emotionally just draining, it's taxing, like there's so many things that you're you're unable to do as a provider because you just you you you're lost for capacity. And I think I really learned that being able to just find the time. Even if you just say, look, an hour in a day.

This is my hour. Don't bother me. Don't bother me. This is my hour. I need this. I need this. And actually, to be fair, you need it too. You need it. You need me to have this for you. Right? Craig Riviere: Mm. SJ: So I think it's just really understanding. I've learned to understand that.

And sometimes f sometimes, I guess, even the friction in a relationship is is if they even if your partner doesn't quite understand that, you you you kinda have to take it. Sometimes you kind of just have to take it. There's not even a a choice in that. Point because it's so important to be able to give back to yourself. Because, as I said, you just can't run on fumes, man. It's just not going to happen.

So, yeah, that's that's what I've learned. Craig Riviere: I'll I'll let Daniel kind of share his thoughts so I can hear like both both perspectives from two different fathers as well. Go ahead, Daniel. Dan: Well, yeah, I completely understand what Simon's saying. From my dynamic, I'm basically in a similar situation.

I've got one child with one partner or my previous partner, and I'm currently in a relationship at the moment. But I've got two other kids with this partner. So it's completely different dynamic, you know, and the way I look at it is I feel like my identity is a father, you know, that's a part of me now. Since my first daughter was born, she has changed me as a person. Now I'm a father.

So I say for one of the first things I do say is I'm a father. And that's important to me because at the end of the day, I never saw my dad all the time growing up. So it's a similar situation, similar dynamic to my daughter. That's with my previous partner at the moment. I always spoke to my dad all the time. We always had a good relationship. And he molded me into the person I am today and without a doubt.

And one of his strong morals is fatherhood. He was a great father. would always have time for me, he would give me great advice. More time I wouldn't listen to his advice but, you SJ: Ha ha ha. Dan: know, like, he would give me that most amazing advice and when I look back in my childhood and I think like, wow, what you said was right.

Like, majority of the time, there's not probably a handful of things I could say that he was wrong about but. These are probably like stuff to do with technology and whatnot. You know how the oldies don't really hear that I'm SJ: Yeah. Craig Riviere: Yeah. Dan: saying.

But yeah, man, but at the same time, for me, in my situation, I feel like it hurts, it hinders me, like not being able to be that person to my child, you know, and be that role model, be that guidance to her on a regular basis.

like not only am missing out but my child is also missing out also and she's got a family here as well you know and they do miss her they do ask her they want to see her all the time and and it's upsetting because we got I've got a daughter that's a similar age to her you know and they grew up so like so close right and obviously now the dynamics have changed she's a bit older it's a bit techy at times So she's always asking them, she's always, you know, where's, I see her?

Where's my sister? wanna see my sister. I haven't seen her in a minute now, you know? And yeah, it hurts me not being able to bring them together. But for me, like to deal with all of that, trying to reclaim myself away from, you know, being a father is like Simon said, he hit the nail on the head when he said like, just about focus. without focus, you know, where are we, know, what we're doing.

So we have no, we're just oblivious to everything. So if we can just laser focus on one thing at a time, think about one thing at a time and put our energy into them thoughts, that can definitely dramatically help the situation. So in my case, obviously I want to provide that as a father. So my focus is work. I need to work. I need to get a job.

you're not working you need to get a job about work and you know make money so you can actually feed your family and help them give them what they need so yeah that's that's what I Craig Riviere: It's interesting how you 'cause your perspective on it it or your perspective on it was actually to almost embrace fatherhood even further, like even deeper.

and then SJ was almost like, I need to find myself in between all of that as well. So it shows how even if your dynamics are quite s similar to each other could be Dan: But I agree, SJ, you need to have time for yourself as well. Without that time for yourself, you mentally won't be able to cope. I've got three daughters, yeah. There's no men in the house.

So if I don't have that, at least an hour or whatever, just to do my thing. Craig Riviere: Like one hour on the toilet for no reason, just sitting SJ: Yeah. Dan: You know what saying? It gets like that. It gets like that. Just sitting there with your headphones in. With your earphones. Craig Riviere: there He's just sitting there wait fires are numbing everything brought the headphones.

I've never done that before, I've never had the headphones in my life. SJ: do what you Craig Riviere: shit. SJ: gotta do, boy. Dan: But you know, it's a blessing in a way because they're like my support network as well. So if I've got issues outside or anything, I can always turn to them. They can give me guidance. They can help me reclaim myself and remember who they told me.

Remember who you are and remember what you want to do and what your goals are and what you're passionate about. And just keep doing it. know what mean? So as long as you've got your family that's in your corner cheering you on. It can help a lot, especially with the dynamic where I'm not seeing my daughter, which could make me kind of feel down and the dumps about.

It affects a man not being able to be there for their child. It really like, you're thinking every day, my child's waking up, what's he or she up to, what's she doing? I don't even know what's going on because the family dynamic's so different. I have no idea, have no say, have no input. Things are happening and this is my family too. And I have no say about it. And it can take its toll mentally, 100%.

Craig Riviere: We'll get straight into your pre-recording as well, because I'm sure that will be a bit of overlap and kind of it's a good way for you to kind of get to reflect on something that you might have said and you hear it back in okay. so yeah, we'll get into your recording now and then we'll continue. Appreciate it for you sharing that, my bro.

you hearing it back, what what what thoughts or what emotions come up for you? Dan: I'd say a lot of, I hear a lot of pain in that guy. I've heard a lot of emotional trauma, maybe I'll say, going through a situation where he doesn't really wanna be involved in. And I don't know, I feel like it's affected him in a way where he's kind of not giving up, but it's...

compared to just cut ties with somebody just because the relationship is so toxic. But at the same time, right. feel like, you know, one thing I didn't say is about, you know, the focus and the career thing. And that's exactly what gets me through each and every single day. know what I mean? Without my job, I would be lost kind of I feel like without other people, like other humans.

Even though you can do things for ourselves, but we still need social time with other people You know to just have a conversation with speak about what's on your mind away from the drama and the stress and the headache. It just does so much wonders for the mind. When you just once in while link up with a man, then have a laugh. You've got to laugh for hours, you know what mean? Enjoying yourselves.

So yeah, it's important to have them times with your people, with your family and your friends, as well as just that same focus and drive for working, that hunger. So yeah. Craig Riviere: I appreciate that. I think yeah, we're probably well over due even catch up or actually again.

Dan: Hehehehehe Craig Riviere: but you're right, like I I think from what I'm hearing there is a lot of cases where there's this lot of isolation and that's kind of why we even have these kind of sessions and talks to my thoughts.

It's about men being able to hear other perspectives or just share it without having to be judged or kind of prodd or just really just being able to share it and just realise, yeah, some people are in similar situations. And I guess from hearing, yeah, what you said in your voice, no, it does sound like there's there is a bit quite a bit of pain.

but it's also it's nice to hear that you do have like you're aware of what you have around you and the people that you have around you. And it's true that human beings can't do this on their own. Like you need to find a way to connect, find a way to to fill your cup basically.

so when you do come back you come back with like a second wind, third, fourth wind, and then have a reason to say, Yeah, I'm gonna keep going as well. But yeah, definitely appreciate you you sharing that. Simon, what what do you what comes to you comes to your mind for you? SJ: Yeah, thank you for sharing, bro.

I guess my it's not even necessarily feedback, it's more of a question that I thought about while I was hearing that. Because obviously we're we're looking at what is our identity, who do we identify as and and who is that person, what do they look like? And I think very much from from your perspective, from your voice note, it sounds like being a dad is your identity. Like that's who you are now. And That's great.

But I guess by my question is some I'm doing what Craig does, the does does the the devil's advocate. If you I'll do the Dan: Hehehehe. Hehehehe. Craig Riviere: I was try I was trying to not I was trying to not do that part after my limit C SJ: devil I'll do the devil's advocate. So if you if you didn't have that family unit that you now have to kind of lean on, who who would you be? Like who is Daniel?

Like what does that identity look like outside of being a dad? Dan: that's a hard question to answer because we adapt in every situation. Every situation is unique and you might be. something one day and the next day you might be something else.

Obviously there is a certain consistency of the person who you are so you could be like a kind, considerate, well you won't be considerate to everyone but some people will see you as that, some people might see you as an asshole for example. SJ: Yeah. Dan: Not everyone's gonna like you in a sense. to like box yourself in and say, I'm this person.

It is, it's hard because you might be that person to someone else, but you might be a complete different person to another person. So if you understand what I mean. Craig Riviere: Could I challenge you there? From what you're saying, from how you want to describe yourself, you're only basing it on what other people have said.

So you're basically saying, Well, I want to s I would like you maybe you have something that you like to say about yourself, but you're saying that well, this person might not agree or this person might not agree or it doesn't matter. The point is like in the end, as you know, most of the time you spend it on your own, especially when you're on the toilet for an hour and Dan: You SJ: Yeah.

Craig Riviere: There's literally nobody else to judge to j to to talk or to judge or to say who you are or who you're not. But there's like this I call it like a it's like a silver line that runs in us. that is constant and you always get tugged back to it.

Like if I was to outwardly save like who I might be, I might be a family person, I love the sun or the islands, I'm super ambitious, love to connect to people and I like to dream big and just go for like go for things that I believe that isn't in the world yet. Even if it doesn't exist, it's it will it didn't not everything that was around us ever existed. It was a thought and that's my belief.

So that's how I believe that I my core goes for it. And yes, that can change. Sometimes it shifts, but that's pretty much me being me probably the last twenty years of my life. At least before when I was moving to college, that's what I thought, ambition. Dan: So that's like your CV that you put on your CV kind of thing. Craig Riviere: Like that's like my thing. Yeah.

So the so when I one I want a good way to kind of well, we're probably challenging you here. It's not supposed to be about you challenging you, but it's a good way to think about it for yourself. Like, what do you think is your staple or the your staple things? It could also be family, it could be core beliefs, it could be the things that you would die on the hill for.

Dan: It's definitely core beliefs, traditional values, family. ambition, you know, we want to get somewhere in life, like the willingness to go for it and push as far as you can. I'm not a person that gives up easy, know, I'm persistent. If I want to do something, I'll find any way to do it. So I'd say that's a few friends about me. Craig Riviere: You go.

And that's things that can the point about that is nobody can take that away from you. Nobody can come along and say different because they haven't seen your life and they haven't walked your steps. So that's the key part about it. You have things that you that people will literally not be able to say different because you've you've walked every step and you've done every decision.

And yeah, sometimes you're lazy and sometimes you're relentless, and sometimes you need a rest, and sometimes you have more energy and you can keep going. and that's a super important thing because again, hearing from the voice note. There are lot of things that are not in your control. And that's what makes things feel chaotic. And even when we want to lean on people, sometimes they're not always around.

So you always want to know what is the thing that I have that I can always lean on? Who is the person that like who's Daniel? In w in all this chaos, in all the empty tank. Who's that person that gets up the next day and says, Yeah, yo, how you doing, bro? Like and you go and catch up with that person despite all the things that you're carrying.

Or you f like you go for a second win with your your daughters and say, you know what? I didn't get to talk to my oldest, but I know I know I can have a great day with the two that I have right now. It's good things to keep in mind. SJ: It's good it's I think it's important to identify that even in the midst of everything because as Craig said, it's something you're always able to lean back on.

It's always something that you can realise when you feel like you're you're you're in a moment, in a state of where it's depression or whatever, you can really look at it and be like, Well, who am I? What makes me happy? What w wh why am I in this state?

And it's probably because you're not getting those things that you identify yourself to be, whether it's a family man, whether it's whatever, you're not you're not feeling that you're fulfilling your ambition. And you said you're you you're an ambitious person. It's it's really like you're probably in that state because you're not now fulfilling those things that you identify as who you are.

And actually once you acknowledge that and you recognize that, it makes it a little bit easier to then get back into that space and help with as we're talking about the transition of reclaiming back your identity because you know what your identity is and you know what it looks like.

I think where it becomes incredibly difficult and incredibly depressive and incredibly like just draining is when you just you get into a space where one minute you're one thing and next minute you're another and you're like, I don't know who I am, I don't know where I'm meant to be, who I'm meant to be, where I'm going. And then you're just waking up lost. And you're like, what am I meant to do with my day today?

Like, how am I meant to fulfill myself? How am I meant to give back to myself? Because I don't know what I don't know what fulfills me. I don't know what that is, I don't know who I am.

And I think that's where because sometimes you can get lost in just being a father and just being a provider and not actually acknowledging all the other things that we've talked about, as you said, Daniel, like being ambitious, like having really just building a s a core family unit. And if you don't have that, you just you're you're lost.

Dan: One thing I was having a chat with one of our mates, he was saying even if you go for a walk... You don't have Craig Riviere: Mm-hmm. Dan: to be a gym, you don't have to go to the gym. Sometimes just go for a walk, your head, get the blood pumping, circulating. That can just change your mindset instantly.

focusing on something else, focusing on something different, focusing on your surroundings, focus on right now what's in front of you, what you're in control of. Because one thing my grandma told me as well, do what you can and let the good Lord do the rest. That was one of her infamous quotes. Do you get SJ: Mm-hmm. Craig Riviere: Yeah. Dan: what I mean?

She used to say that all the time to all of her grandkids and she got about 20. So it was crazy. SJ: Kids. Craig Riviere: Yeah. Leave leave tomorrow's worries for tomorrow and then only focus on today. Yeah. SJ: For real. Dan: Yeah, 100 % man. These things, we need to live by these sayings and that's one way that we can reclaim it. Yeah, the simplest. Craig Riviere: Yeah. The simplest things as well.

The simplest things. I appreciate that one. it was great listening to both of you. Again, as a person that's not a father myself, I could just like always I'm always thinking like, rah, like why can't you just keep how keep a hold of it? But I also understand that fatherhood is chaotic.

It's new to all of you guys and even especially when you have the first one, you're like, yeah, so I'm a father now, I get all how to be a father. So you don't know how to be a father of two. It's like, well then you don't know how to be a father of three. It always changes. And they say SJ: Yeah, for real. Dan: It was a whole different game. Craig Riviere: everyone gets a different parent as well.

Each child gets a different parent. It's not always the same parent. SJ: Hundred per hundred percent. Hundred percent. I agree with that. Especially because the ages Dan: Alright. SJ: they're all naturally gonna be of different ages as well. And if there's a big gap between them, you might like for me an example, I've got a teenager and then I've got like a one and a half, almost two year old.

It's like they're cu it's a completely different strategy between them two. Dan: Yeah, 100 % you've got to the lectures need to come in, you know, you need to sit in a band, them grown talk to them, especially when they're teenagers, SJ: trust me. Trust me. Trust. Craig Riviere: Yeah. Yeah. Dan: the little ones, have to just back them up, stop being, they're just running around trying to do madness. Literally.

SJ: Trying to break everything in it. Climbing on the T V and also Craig Riviere: All right. So we are the part of the podcast where we pull some questions from our listeners. and any that we that we don't get through today, we will look up on our socials, and you'll probably find us answering it there as well. So we have a few questions.

this will be for both of you or any of us to answer, really, but pro predominantly both of you. I will pick one. What does a healthy boundary look like to you in practice? And how do you enforce it without your co parent feeling like you are putting up a wall and shutting them out? That's a tough one. Dan: I'd say thing you could do is just schedule everything so everyone knows what's happening at what specific time.

So that way there's no rules, you know there's a schedule to stick to, it's your time to have your child or your time to give back the child for example. And that way your partner doesn't feel that she doesn't know what's happening, it could be months in advance, if everything's scheduled then it could save a lot of dramas and you could easily get along if you stick to it. It's just about working together.

SJ: I think I think for me it's more like a big thing for me is just being respectful, like just having a level of respect. Like and really, I'll be honest with you. sometimes you have to just take it for yourself if they just don't understand it. Like it has to it sometimes a boundary has to be put in place, and if the other person just sees it as a wall. it it's just gonna have to be a wall.

Like it really, it really n sometimes is a necessity.

Like so so what I'm I'm trying to get at is a boundary, for example, could be anything from I don't know, bringing certain people around your kids or taking them on holiday without you knowing or something and just really being at the foundation, having a a level of respect, first of all, to just be like I understand that we're not together, but we have a child together and we need to make sure that we're clear in our communication about what's happening with that child.

And also just saying, look, for example, don't call me after nine PM. Like unless it's an emergency. Like there's a boundary in place. Sometimes if they just see it as a wall, it's a wall. It is, well it is it's a wall, it's a wall. So that's Dan: I hear, you know what? I hear it. I hear it. I Craig Riviere: I was I was I was trying to not laugh between it because I Dan: hear it.

Craig Riviere: sound like it sounds like he he made it a wall and he says if they see it as healthy or not, that's up to them. But it's just I'm pointing SJ: Said why not? Craig Riviere: the wall up and if you think this is a problem, that's on you. SJ: Y w I d well yeah, I d that's it. I don't know what else you want me to do. There's a boundary here, like I don't know. Like I'm not asking for much.

I just said don't Craig Riviere: You you gave two examples. You said you said one was if they take down the kids, yeah, you just have to tell me to disrespect and the second rule that you put up was, Yeah, don't call me. I'm not a boo call. Get off my phone basically. That's like SJ: It was. Dan: Nah but it's true though, it's true though. It's crazy, you know what, yeah.

Like, if you're like in a relationship and that relationship's, your mother or your child is no more. Yeah. You can't, like, there has to be a wall up. Do get what I mean? There has to be that wall. Cause if you move on and you're with somebody else and that wall's not down, or that wall's not down, bro, that's hella problems for you in your relationship, bro. SJ: Yeah, f facts, facts.

Dan: for real so that wall Craig Riviere: Yeah. Dan: like once you're co-parenting that wall has to be up because you know Craig Riviere: Okay, the let's ch let's shift the question slightly because SJ: Don't chat to me no more, bro. Craig Riviere: you are both to say actually, you know what? Bear put all the woods round. Dan: It's It has to be. You need to barricade yourself, bro. Trust me.

Craig Riviere: So you obviously have examples of walls that have been put up with your co parents, right? So I guess the the question also says like how do you how did you basically enforce it? 'Cause obviously I'm sure when you put the wall up the first time there was bare like the walls getting trying to get knocked down, you have to cement that back. So SJ: Mm-hmm.

Craig Riviere: how did you relay that back to them? And did they eventually get it or did you have to take down the wall yourself? It's a good question. Simon says I ain't taken a not one war since I started. Dan: For me, that wall, I had to take it down myself. Because me putting a wall up and being angry that I'm stuck in this place. I want to escape.

I felt trapped within myself being angry all the time about the situation. About not being...

involved so yeah you know i want my peace i prefer peace more than anything so if i'm if i want a peaceful life i can't have that anger within myself like sometimes you need to forgive others as well as yourself because you might you might do you might make a mistake or whatever but you need to make sure that you forgive yourself in there so and that war still has to be up SJ: Yeah, that's a big one, bro.

You even no, what Craig Riviere: So yes. SJ: you just said about just forgiving yourself as well is a is a big one, actually. I didn't even think about that. But yeah, I think that play that actually plays a big part in it, is 'cause sometimes they put up rules too. You put up all, they put up all, and it's just like everyone's just blocking each other and then it's just problems, right?

So I think if there's a wall up in front of me, first of all, it's about having a conversation and just saying, What like what's this about? because sometimes naturally when you're when you go from being in a relationship to not being in a relationship, there's there's a lot to figure out, right? And sometimes walls just get put up automatically. You're like, hold on a minute, this ain't normal.

Like, where did this wall come from? So really just having a conversation about what that means and trying to take that down if you can because sometimes again there may be walls up that are not health not healthy.

What the question was about healthy boundaries, but some of some of them are not necessarily healthy and and what I mean by that is for example, I don't want you to come to the house anymore or come and visit your child anymore. Like that's just not what I want you to do. I don't even want to see you. And that's a wall that you've now put up, which is difficult.

but actually that wall is also causing problems between the relationship and my child as well. I think for for the other side, if I'm putting up a wall is again down to communication, it's down to having a conversation. And really just saying like, well, there's a reason why are you phoning me at this time? Like that that's not that's not okay. Like you we used to do that, but we're not there anymore.

So that's not something that you should be doing. So I think that's that's how I guess in some cases you'd implement that either first of all by having a conversation, and then second of all by just kind of enforcing it.

It does cause friction at the start, but in the long term, it ends up working itself out because then they realise, Okay, I I understand that every time I've phoned you for the last two, three weeks at this time you've never picked up the phone. Craig Riviere: which is the di but the difficulty from what I'm sensing in here is that of course at it's okay to not get on with the co parent.

Naturally your your ex partners, it's not always gonna be the case. It's okay to not be lovers, friends, etc. But I guess I guess this is where people might get unreasonable on either pa either parent, of course, where this is where they start using the child as a weapon against you.

And that's when it starts to get really tough and messy and that's where you might drop the wall or you have to take further action, which is obviously again a a l a larger route as well. I guess there has there ever been cases where this has just completely gone against you. SJ: I don't think it's been it's it's never been to a point where it's unreasonable.

Like I've never really made a a decision or put a boundary in place just based on like emotion. I've never really done that to be like well why are you doing that? It's just because I feel like doing it. I've never I've never been that. There's always been a a kind of logic and a reason behind it. So yeah, no, I haven't it hasn't really got to that that point to be fair. Dan: For me, it's completely different.

Parent alienation, you know, it's definitely something that she's done and she continues to do. When she doesn't get her way, when things don't go how she wanted them to go because of emotions, basically. It's definitely something that a lot of women do have, they do. take their fathers away from their kids. And it's just, I don't know, man, it's just, it's just a horrible, disgusting kind of mentality.

But obviously, within reason, I can understand if there's domestic violence or other things happening that are affecting the child's health. You know, you can't obviously condone all of that. At the same time, if there's no like... No problems, no implications, no accusations, none of the alleged stuff. There shouldn't be any walls up like that. get what I mean?

That's a whole different level of a wall now that this alienation is affecting the child and myself.

might not see affecting the child but then doing that is going to make you as a parent as the person that is alienating they're going to see it as they're going to look at their child and say like your your father's you know this and that look he said he's going to come see you he isn't come look like they can say literally SJ: Amen.

Dan: anything when they're in that situation because the child might be like, where's my dad? I haven't seen my dad in a minute. I want to see, your dad don't care about you. He don't want to see you. But this is all because this woman is emotional. And because of her emotions, the child effectively doesn't get to see their other parent. Craig Riviere: Yeah, yeah. That's tough. It's hard, man.

Dan: It's hard, it is hard. Too many people, too many guys go through this. Too many men. And it's a shame that they have to kind of give up on being a father almost, like for a period of time if it has to be until their child grows up. Because the legal system is if you ain't got a reasonable partner that you've had a child with. you're going to keep going back to court regardless. Do get what I mean?

Because you're going to have to keep paying to go back to court. And know people paid over 20 grand and they're still not seeing their kid. know, so it's something that we need to think about. And well, we can't eradicate it unless our mindset's changed, but we can raise awareness, make a lot more people aware about it and try and... wake them up because they're not really understanding.

I don't feel like they're understanding exactly the effects of it. Craig Riviere: Agreed. This is why this podcast is here, man. We just want to kind of share people's perspectives, they're kind of what they live through as well.

And things that just was that the opposite gender, or other people just wouldn't realize this is what other fathers are going through who really want to take care of their kids, who really want to be there, and just mentally how that kind of affects them as well.

we have one more question before we kind of wrap up, and that is what is one specific parenting habit or reaction you inherited from from your upbringing that you've had to actively unlearn to be a better co parent today. SJ: Are you talk so wait, 'cause I wanna understand the question. Are you talking about from your parents? From your parents. From your parents. Ooh. Craig Riviere: Inherited your own upbringing.

Yeah. Your parents, yeah. It could be parents, could be grandparents, could be family. You inherited it. It's not something you create yourself. You basically know that this this behavior or that reaction comes from you what you've s witnessed or so or seen or be been told that that's how you should put you're supposed to react. SJ: Okay.

I think for me it's more about being being what I've tried to unlearn is being reactive. And by that I mean like growing up in a black household, in a Caribbean household, where the first kind of thought from a parent is maybe like aggression. Whether you get beat with a belt, beat with a slipper, whatever it is. Not to say that I was an abusive household at all, but it happens innit.

Sometimes sometimes you get a lick sometimes you sometimes you get a lick in it, sometimes that Craig Riviere: It's like you can't you can't you can't report them at this age, bro. Dan: We're liquid about. SJ: happens. But I guess being less reactive like that and actually learning about like talking and the naughty step and actually saying, Okay, well why did you do that?

And actually really talking about it through the discipline rather than the discipline of the hand. Like if that makes sense. And I think it's more just really about being better at talking.

And actually explaining why this is wrong and actually if there need to be discipline, it's a more about taking away the things that they're privileged to have, whether it's their Nintendo or their T V time or their iPad or whatever. and that's yeah, I've had to I've had to learn to be less reactive because sometimes that is the first the first thing is that what did we say?

You know, you gotta give g give the little fret with a handle Dan: Trust me, Mumsy takes the slipper off and is like, what? you saying? But yeah, Craig Riviere: All right. Dan: to be fair for me, obviously I grew up in a similar household, Caribbean household as well. So there was a lot of beating going on, obviously. It weren't domestic abuse, but obviously if I got beat, I deserved it.

Craig Riviere: It's the fact you've always got to put a disclaimer in. SJ: Yeah, you have to, bro. Dan: If I did get beat, I deserved it. I'll put my hands up and say I did a madness. But I don't know, because at the end of the day, I feel like it's different nowadays. And I feel like I learned. by getting beat.

So I learned to not do something by getting a slap or something like that from my, like not abusive or nothing, but just a little slap to say, look, don't do that. That's naughty. And I didn't, I don't feel like it did me any wrong, but obviously I don't, I don't hit my kids now or anything like that. But it's one, one thing that simon said, you're right.

Like I've learned exactly the same thing that speaking to the kids, speaking to them, making them understand what you're doing is not the right thing to do and trying to guide them to the right direction, the right path to make them see for themselves. That's the aim. I don't want to beat it into you even though that's a method that it works. you get what I'm saying? It works. We all know it works.

You get beats, you get beats one time, second time you know you're not touching it again. SJ: Yeah, do that again. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Dan: It's a method, you know that. people's use for thousands of years. It must be from the start of human existence bro. Not some sense into man, you get what I mean? Trust me right. SJ: Just wake up a little bit, innit? Like that what? Innit, innit, innit?

Craig Riviere: Thousands of years, but for next. I will I've I've been in the Calebrian household. I've only ever been hit like once in my lifetime, actually. So I never actually got beats. And that was that was actually my parents that they went out their way to say that they didn't want to be like their their parents of hitting and not listening, understanding. So I actually never got that.

They they would they were Dan: That's where it all is. Craig Riviere: straight up with the toys taking the way the toys TV time. Sometimes SJ: Yeah. Dan: Hahaha Craig Riviere: I'm like, yo, just hit me, bro. Just So I can keep the place SJ: Nah, bro. Craig Riviere: in Dan: Trust me, you get hit and the toys get taken to you, bro. SJ: Double time. Dan: You get both.

Craig Riviere: So yeah, no, it's it's yeah, I I I completely kind of understand. Just learn to control just again, like reason with them, like you want them to become an adult. And you know what? It's always an interesting one for me because I've never really believed in the beatings because I always felt it's a reflection of a human being or person that's unable to control their emotions.

Because when their boss is bad mouthing them and ordering them around and micromanaging them, they don't punch them in the face. Obviously, some people they do. But but SJ: Ha ha ha. Dan: Hahaha Craig Riviere: so so I always felt like A pair a parent doing that, obviously I'm not being a parent to even know, but I feel like a parent doing that is like a level of them feeling like they own their their c their kid.

And of course, you don't give blood, sweat and tears, so you feel like you own your kid. Like who who who owns them if it's not us? Dan: But you know what it is, yeah? I feel like, because your child is a reflection of you, and if Craig Riviere: That's true. Dan: you step out of line, you want to beat yourself up. Do get what I mean? If you do some crazy stuff, you think, why did I do that? You're a fool.

Do you get what I'm saying? You say SJ: Ha Dan: some stupid... So then at the same time, your kid does something mad. Craig Riviere: It's is is especially in Caribbean household, probably African household as well, where just like, so you gonna shame me on the street with that behavior? You got so and so talking about us now. I heard that. Dan: That's it. Yeah, boy. That's the no-go zone.

Craig Riviere: All right, man, that was that was good. so let's wrap up a little bit to kind of let's find a bit of a what did we take away from Pretty much a of the stuff that we covered in this in this conversation, basically a food for thought, especially for the listeners from all that was heard. SJ: I guess I like I like to try and take a keyword away from a conversation and it f for me it's about capacity.

Like when you're really again the the subject we're talking about is reclaiming your identity but understanding what capacity you have to not just have to find that you need to reclaim it but actually just holding onto it in the first place, just not losing it.

And just really prioritizing the the the the space, the energy to be able to to hold on to that identity rather than ha feeling like you need to somehow reclaim it and find it again, but really just having the capacity or making the capacity to be able to just hold on to your identity. That's that's my food for Dan: I'd say, for me, of looking, like, reclaiming my identity, I am a father, yes.

But I picked up that, you know, sometimes I need to focus more about myself and I need to focus on filling up my cup, as you guys would say that. you know, taking that extra time or an hour, for example, a day.

to say yeah this is my time this is for me let me like reclaim myself let me fill up my cup let me do something for another that i love or let me meet up with my friends once in a while just to keep you know that alive that happiness alive because yeah that's that's how you reclaim your identity you know if you're not happy then you know you're miserable and if you're miserable you know you in yourself.

So I feel like everyone has the capacity to be happy and it's all about what you do with your time that you have. Craig Riviere: I think the one thing I pick up from the conversations is awareness. I think a lot of people that become parents, especially at different times and ages or different parts of their life, they lose the awareness that they are still a person themselves, that they need time.

And Daniel, you mentioned it and SJ, focus and capacity. You focus on being a father because you believe that that's all your life is right now. And then you ha the the you use all the capacity you have to become the father. But if you have a bit of awareness to realise actually shoot damn, there's still me involved in all of this. I probably should focus and use some of that capacity to kind of recharge myself.

And again, the biggest thing I say to everybody, maybe it's easier for me to say 'cause I'm not a father yet, you are the biggest projects in your life. And the biggest thing that is is super important about it is that your kids are watching you.

When you're drained And you're at 50% or 25%, or you're really short tempered, or you're angry, or you're you you're not communicating well, you just cannot be present because your mind is elsewhere, or because you're just drained, they're gonna feel every bit of that.

So sometimes being a little bit selfish is really gonna go that ten times further than like just ringing yourself out and saying, I just have to be there for them at this moment. Like I just have to I like they're gonna they called me because they needed they didn't know where to tissue paper is. I gotta leave the toilet real quick. Nah just say this just whatever they spilled is already spilled.

It's already done already. SJ: for rural. Craig Riviere: But no it's just that was a that's a key one I picked up. But really appreciate both your your stories. It's just super transparent and yeah, just really honest and also it's interesting. Both you have just as many kids but in completely different parts of your life and have gone through different areas as well. So it's really good to to hear.

Daniel, massive thank you for joining us. yeah, Dan: That's good. Craig Riviere: this conversation's over. We'll SJ: Yeah, man. Craig Riviere: get into the last pieces, which is again Talk to My Thoughts is a platform that isn't just about us talking to you, but for you to actually get involved, ask questions, continue the conversation, open up to us about your views and experiences.

We really hope that you enjoyed the conversation as well. But if you if you did, please again find us on at talking to my thoughts on social media. if you enjoyed it, send us your messages, your comments, your your experiences. And yeah, thank you for listening and keep up to date with what comes next. Thank you, everybody. Bless. SJ: Yeah, man. Thank you. Peace.