Ep20 | Men During Pregnancy (Ft Ashley J, Stefan & Bradz)

No one comes to you says you better step up now. Well, how do you feel about that? No one does that You're right. We do put a lot of pressure on ourselves whether it's I'm gonna be just like my dad who was amazing or I Don't want to be anything on my dad. He was what less, you know You're still gonna you're still gonna aim for the same result But I'd really do think that there isn't any slack.

It's just play, you know, you're out This is talking to my welcome to talking to my thoughts the podcast So we have open honest and raw conversations about the things that are playing on our minds And my name is Simon aka SJ. I'm a father. I'm a video creator and I'm a business enthusiast Hi, my name is Ashley Joseph aka Ashley J. I'm a presenter an actor father full-time husband I am Stefan aka SJP.

I'm a trade finance manager by day husband and father of two all other times and also a video production manager as well Yes, I am Bradley Charles aka Brad's I'm a dancer choreographer I also DJ full-time dad as well as a husband. So Yeah, man putting the work On my thing now, there we go You can't miss that bro.

All right, cool So in this podcast we bring a unique perspective on our inner thoughts by literally pre recording the things that are on our mind Before talking about them amongst a group now we do this because we believe that before you can be open with others You first have to be open with yourself So make sure you guys stay updated and follow us on all of our socials at talking to my thoughts now Today's topic is male pregnancy So we have a weird one because we're talking about obviously going through that child birth the process of pregnancy and and how I guess men Deal with that situation and that scenario for you guys.

We'll do a bit of a word association What's the first thing that pops into your mind when you think of the word pregnancy? Baby So yeah, that's the first thing I think of you know, it's baby or belly I just see you I just see but Yeah, it's like growth is new life pregnancy is I suppose that that build up to The baby, you know kind of the pre baby Wicked all right cool.

Well a good start so what we'll do literally was jump straight into the first voice note I'll play Ashley's one first And then we'll just open up a conversation from there. Yeah, so I'm good. Yeah, I think that the Society from the hospital system to Just culture is designed in a way that Men are not involved in pregnancy or childbirth.

There's no real Hands-on advice or handbooks that's really put in your face is very much on the side of the woman Which obviously the woman is physically carrying a child but It makes it very easy for a man to not be involved in that process because it's quite alienating Anyway, we already don't know what's going on in the sense of feeding the kick for the first time or something else like that so as a man not being able to have that opportunity to Necessarily be welcomed into that.

I think it's it's a problem From my personal experiences even going to see the midwife in your first pregnant Well when your wife's first pregnant, they don't even ask you anything.

They don't ask the man anything even your own personal family history, and I think that plays a big part into Single-parent families that end up that way as I personally think the society really needs to look at What they need to do Into really creating that journey of pregnancy together as a partnership and that's not down or based on whether you're married or engaged or cohabiting or Something happen casually that is just something that should be there a partnership a team and that happens Yeah, I mean that's interesting actually because the first thing I kind of picked up on when you was talking about that was you were saying that You feel alienated Yeah, you feel alienated you feel isolated and now obviously I guess this it's something that at some point or another we all experience because as you said society kind of Focuses or fixates on the woman which is fair enough because they're going through the physical part of the journey as well Well, I think and this is a disclaimer.

I have to say this first because I know there's a lot of women listening This is not a comparison This conversation is not about comparison we're not doing that but we just have to acknowledge that there are certain things that a man also go through and that's all we're just trying to have a conversation because as Ashley already said we do feel in some ways isolated alienated and society does In many I guess quite rightly focus most of that that energy onto the woman because they have to go through that physical Birthing but there is still an issue as you addressed with not acknowledging that there's another person involved in that process Is actually so how did you feel when you obviously you've got you've got your two kids as well How did you feel about the process?

Was it different with the two the two pregnancies or how did you kind of was it? Was it the same? How did you feel with both of those those situations?

Um, I guess no Every woman says is no two pregnancies are the same and I guess for each man That experience is not the same because then you have more knowledge the second time But the first time I remember going to the midwife and sitting there and the missus says I'm pregnant and then they were like, okay Congratulations.

First of all, there's already preconceived ideas because we look we look young so they're thinking are there was just knocking boots and all You see it and I actually questioned it being honest and she admitted it But then she said I can't need to ask you some questions and she just started running questions through and I remember she said Do you know who the father is as I was sitting there?

does it do you think I've just come here to kick it with my best friend or just for moral support and and funny thing is I told that in a comedy set when I was doing a show and it's funny but the truth of that is is Depending on certain people's emotional status or their mental well-being that can just throw them off straight away that can kick in paranoia That can kick in even more fear because as men already I know part of that as soon as your woman says you I'm pregnant There's still a part of goes.

Oh You know you start to just a certain way so for me, I didn't know what that meant for my role if I'm being honest and and By God's grace our midwife changed and then we had a midwife that was very much about Coaching us to say this is a partnership.

This is teamwork And that's when I really started looking at that comparison of going Well depending on a person you meet you could feel alienated which then when it comes to giving birth You may not as a man.

You may just step back and not know what to do And you know, it's quite it's quite I just think the whole pregnancy through even when you're talking to some of the girls or your your mother-in-law's friends They start they start busting joke. Okay.

Oh, you pretty ain't gonna know what to do Well, and all of that starts going through your head as a man And you know, you gotta think that I had the understanding of knowing that My wife and my child are going into a very difficult situation to give birth and I'm the only person you can go in the same And come out the same so there was a lot of pressure of trying to save two lives that you loved You know So for me, I do really think that I did feel alienated and the second time I was kind of like I never listen to this midwife because I had such a good Second first midwife if that makes sense I don't need to listen to her even though she was lovely, but I used to what I got my old midwife on what's that Jenny?

I still what's that per like?

Yeah, I'll type Jenny because Jenny made me really know that this is about us together, you know, and okay We're never gonna feel those contractions the same way But I remember the headbutts and the squeezing from my wife because I was holding it from behind I still remember all those those bits of pain and going through that together and as a man if you don't feel that you're Part of it is very easy.

I think through the hospital through NHS to step away. I'm really annoyed that the no at no point did they ask me my blood type and I had to and I had to make them test my blood type because I said if my if my son or I didn't know is my son if my child at the time when they're born or my Wife needs a blood transfusion.

The only person you notice in that room guaranteed is me So you should know my blood type and it turns out that me and my wife are the same blood type and my son He didn't need anything but it's just little things like that and if you're not a hands-on person or you're not feeling empowered that's a very dangerous situation to be in as a man and I think I think we do go through a pregnancy and I think The difference is is for a woman.

She's counting up to that day as a man We're counting down like from the time we're told we're like, this is a countdown and we've got to get ourselves ready Because when that day comes everything needs to be done, you know, but I did feel that way, you know I still I still do a bit at times with things I Resonate with all of that when you hear my when you hear my recording It's pretty similar in regards to some of the some of the stuff especially in regards to the mental But you're right about the NHS you're right I understand that there's a lot of kind of safeguarding to make sure that the person that's there Definitely not the the partner and they're not being kind of forced into keeping the child and etc But I feel once you get past that safeguarding step there needs to be something there where there's support for both people and Yeah, no, I resonate with so much of what you said there man.

I think it goes without saying those that have been for a child there is Differences of opinion in terms of the approach and subject to who you have there to support you.

I mean what I think is not Wholeheartedly embraced that they remember that we are both new parents both of us, you know, I mean and the support is equally Different but the support should equally be available To both I mean for example when you talk about the NHS Yes, definitely there is a side of that But I also think even in working life in day-to-day like I've never knew and I'll be very honest with you when my first Child was born my son.

I never knew we were entitled to paternity.

I never I never knew Exactly It's just it's just having that support or even if it's from The HR department or something like that to say we have this in place available for you to support you and obviously the new position that you're in because it's a new job for life and If you're working life does suffer in some way shape or form You've got kind of played a sympathy vote of I've just had a new baby.

It's like well, you know, you've just had a new baby You've just taken on a whole new responsibility Let's support you we can give you two weeks or if you need holiday we can try and support you in that sense I never had any of that conversation that time but I can see how from the early doors some Males young males or even older males may feel a bit like okay I feel like I'm getting pushed out a little bit here because I had a similar experience ash with when we had one of our Meetings with a midwife and that conversation I was actually asked to leave the room So as you're saying Steph it's safeguarding thing 100% But when I leave the room, I was like, well, we're here to meet the midwife a conversation But you're asking me to leave now and I had no idea what it was about Obviously I asked my wife what it was about But at the time and again, we're both sitting there and I was just like I don't know how I feel about this But obviously it's something that happened.

So I'm gonna go with it and then address it afterwards But that was a new experience for me. That was a little bit uncomfortable at the time.

I say But that's something that should be there should be an education piece before that So now if you're using probably a poor example But if there's if the mom is going through it while in during pregnancy, you're doing an ultra scan or you're doing something One thing that the nurses are not gonna do is say something or leave something Ambiguous where it's gonna put stress on the mom sure, you know, they're not gonna be looking at all Let me just go speak to someone to come but they're not gonna do that Well, then what is the dad it's okay to say to the dad out of nowhere not explaining why?

Yeah, can you leave the room, please? In that little in that five minutes one minute 30 seconds of them are how long it is that you that you have left that room Especially if you're a first-time dad you are sitting there thinking ah What what is what's that about? What's the reason for that? And it's unnecessary anxiety.

It's unnecessary fear especially when You as that third party individual have to be strong not only for yourself But also for your your partner and also for that unborn child You have to be able to also be the translator who can kind of Defend your partner and explain this is what she means.

This is what she wants You need to have those education pieces first You can't be sending people out of rooms and not explaining why and then not being surprised when on the drive home The the partner the man might slightly be a bit kind of Never waste. Yeah segregated.

The thing is as well is that it's been biologically proven that The man's energy of the father's energy and feelings that that translates to the baby It goes to the baby and that can set up for even a distance relationship between you and that child So those things about those same feelings of anxiety that a woman can feel and it can go to the baby It can be the same thing for a man And I think that's that's another thing.

That's very important that needs to be taken into this Especially it needs to be taken into account because men don't talk about these things Hmm, if we weren't doing this podcast right now, we won't be talking about it I won't have come out of immigrant brats. They've just sent me out the room.

Yeah, you know So for me it's even more important that that is set up you go to these birthing centers or child centers care centers There's no leaflets. They're saying so you're gonna be a dad I don't I don't ever see it and I think I think it is I think it is a real thing because I Can't say we stress more than women.

I think we may stress just as much but in a different way and about different things Yeah, through those for those nine months. Um, I Just in point actually that's an interesting point.

So what even when you was bringing up like in your voice No again going back to that when you said, okay This at this stage the way that men are essentially treated through that process That's something that can affect them to the point of them leaving and then creating that single parent household now obviously it can get to that extreme and I think that again is something that we need to Figure out a way to address because obviously as you said, it's about creating the the journey for both parties Obviously the journey may be different because as I said the woman's going through more of the physical journey And the man is going through maybe a bit more of an emotional journey But it's about supporting both of those journeys at the same time rather than saying okay Well, you ain't giving birth so no one cares about you right now You just got you stay to the side and we'll sort this out while you do what you need to do in it And I think we need to I don't have the answer But maybe if if there's a way where we can basically find a way to create that journey for both parties That's another solution that we can have to maybe fixing things like single parent or households and I think that's I think it is really key as as a man during pregnancy to be able to get that ability to be a Part of it as much as you can education wise but also physically been able to like being as we've all been there as as fathers Seeing the reaction of of our partners when they get that first kick And then being able to kind of go over there put your hand there and and feel it and be part of that moment As well, and those to me all of those little things are quite key in There was something interesting that Steph was saying about Obviously being in a house together and stuff and even just the fact that if you're not around as much The baby doesn't hear your voice.

The baby doesn't pick up on your personality You know and actually when my wife is pregnant with her with our first child We actually were living separately because the place we bought we was renovating. Then we both went back to our family homes But it was that every night we were still together.

Sometimes people do think okay, we're having a child together So that means we've got to have this really cool romantic relationship and and it's got to be really effective and unfortunately Obviously, we're all lucky, but sometimes things don't work out.

So I and this is something that me and my wife think about regularly that Us being parents is an evolution of our relationship It's not a part of our relationship You know, and I know I know we're kind of going past childbirth of it But I think it's important to look at it from that and have those open conversations from the time you are pregnant So, you know where you're heading because then we know when we're doing our parenting this has this beef or whatever We're discussing or might be not agreeing on has nothing to do with our relationship So it doesn't put an extra toll on our relationship.

As soon as you know, your Mrs. Is pregnant. You're a dad. I mean, she's a mom You might as well just start them conversations the time you see that clear blue told you yes, you know, I think Other brands are okay In it in it in it cool With that in mind.

All right, let's jump into a Stefan's one and then we'll follow up again from them Men during pregnancy I'm a I'm a man during pregnancy Third time around I'm blessed to say that I've got another one on the way You in October and even though it's third time around, you know, I've done this really twice already We've had home births and we've had birth and centers I'm excited by it.

I'm still excited I'm excited by it.

I'm still excited by it all but then at the same time still absolutely breaking it There isn't there's no way to kind of explain the The kind of juxtaposition of being a man during pregnancy You have that overwhelming feeling of I've done something I've marked my legacy um You know i've succeeded um but that also that weird sense of Protection um and wanting to Look after your your family and look after your your tribe um And that's based on so many different things, you know, um, i'm a firm believer that you need to Obviously remain strong for your partner, you know, they're going through that physical That physical process they don't have time in my opinion for your fears and anxieties to be stressing them out and and You know and and releasing all those negative Intoxicants into their hormones into the body during a nine month pregnancy and in however many hours of labor um But you know you become that one man support system you become the coach the psychiatrist Um the bouncer You have to you have to know the plan what's the plan that you know, are we having a home birth?

Are we going to a hospital? What's my wife's opinion on? on drugs and medication You know if if there's a scenario that something happens where she's not able to make decisions during labor which happens God forbid you know What would she want me to do? But does she want an epidural?

You know, do I save her or do I save the baby all of these different things you realize that there's such a big Responsibility as a father during the pregnancy and labor process that you've always kind of got to keep in mind and Despite all of those fears and despite all of the facts that you are A just a third-party vessel throughout the whole thing Nothing changes the fact that it's such a beautiful process.

I know that sounds corny But That moment when you are blessed to be able to hear that first cry And be able to see that the baby is healthy and everything is well Can't change that for the world man can't change that for the world. It makes all of that Holding of the breath moments just fully fully worth it um Yeah But there's a lot despite not physically Having to do much Being a man in the pregnancy.

There's a there's a lot mentally that you need to make sure you're keeping on top of and and make sure that you're Kind of at one with yourself with to be able to make that process For you and your partner As comfortable and as smooth as as possible And yeah, that's that's the challenge but it's a it's a beautiful challenge.

That's the challenge Obviously we're talking about Male pregnancy and is that even such a thing do we get affected by or how does it affect us in in the scale of it?

And I think what a lot of people May not realize because as men as ashley said we don't really talk about it There's a lot of mental pressure even though it's not physical pressure Mental pressure and it's important because we're obviously looking at stuff like this What we're doing a podcast and we're having this open platform essentially what we're trying to address is mental health now I guess from everybody's experience including my own as a man as as you said you want to be That one-man band you want to be that that unit you want to be you have to be the one that's the protector the bodyguard The one that's that the the support the emotional support physical support The the advice the guidance you have to do with that But what we've what a lot of people may fail to realize is that not only are we putting we're putting that pressure on ourselves the external world is putting that pressure on us too because Everybody's looking at you as the dad to be like, okay, you're the dad.

You've got a man up now You've got to handle your misses. You've got to handle this pregnancy. You've got to do that. You're holding it down for not only Yourself you're holding it down for your partner.

You've got to hold it down for your child Like and there's a lot of strain on that and I think a lot of people don't realize that and again going back to when we first spoke about what actually brought up is that I think it's important that we We addressed we addressed the pressures that are on dads as well Not to take anything away from what the woman's going through by any means because there is a lot in that in itself But just acknowledging the fact that the dads go through a lot too.

Some people break and it's like, you know what? It's too much. I'm out I am ready for that. Sorry to cut you but go on now go from what you've been saying on what um stefan's pre-record For me, it's just dawned on me that there's really no slack for a man It's either that you're in or you're out but it's for a woman You're allowed to be tired. Some days you're allowed to just put your foot up.

You're allowed to work from home You know, you're allowed to say i'm just going to eat whatever Do you know i'm saying you're allowed to do these things?

You know You're allowed to drive in fact your seat belt on when you get to a certain size That there's so many things set up that there's there's I guess there's boundaries as they're all Zones that you can go women can push certain ways and that's great But as a man there's not and that's what I feel like is you've it in or you're out You know, no one comes to you says you better step up now.

Well, how do you feel about that? No one does that. It's just it's assumed and You're right. We do put a lot of pressure on ourselves And I think that may stem in from obviously your experience as a child growing up Whether it's i'm going to be just like my dad who was amazing or I don't want to be anything on my dad.

He was what less, you know You're still gonna you're still gonna aim for the same result Um, but I really do think that there isn't any slack.

It's just boy, you know, you're out, you know And it's mad because there's even the scenarios even if you sit there and go okay As a dad, especially we we've all got more than one child now So, you know it could be a thing where you're like, let me just get myself a little power on that before I jump on this Squad cast or before I finish work or before I do this before I go to the shop and it's like the external world will look at and see as Well, why is he resting when you know, and his wife and his and his pregnant wife is up Doing x y and z so it's like you you need to be able to rest to be able to help and support but if you look after yourself too much it then comes across as selfish because Somebody else is carrying your your child and I think you know, naturally we've all we've all probably been there and it's been said as banter Where you know your wife might say that she's tired or there might be some sort of comment regarding Regarding doing too much or just wanting to rest and then it's people look at you like, okay So yeah, that's that's you then so you're gonna do that Um, yes, it's automatically it's straight away.

It's everything kind of goes to you If we need to right now if something breaks in the house, you guys gotta go to ikea, you know Is you who has to go to ikea? Yep, and you put it together, too I'm not gonna lie here because my wife was a laborer so she puts bare things together in it. So in that sense We all know if we get serious with it your wife has all of those skills While she's she could be one week pregnant.

She could be nine months pregnant If something was to happen and family members heard that she picked up just a screwdriver You didn't you didn't do enough And it's and in a sense, it's that fear, you know, no one the pregnancies are complete No one ever knows what's going to happen with pregnancies, you know No one ever knows if they're going to reach full term And if we're being real No one ever wants to get that bad news And look back as a man and go I didn't do enough, you know, yeah and it's that fear Of of losing a child is that fear of what society will say is you not stepping up where you could have Which is what causes a lot of that mental stress And there are some people and it's not to say that they're not strong or anything It's just there's some people who can't handle that pressure And it's like all right where you think i'm worthless or you don't think i'm stepping up enough to what society says All right, cool.

I'm just gonna chill All good points, I think I just to add to that I think there's also another way of looking at as well and I think it's the way that I did I think it's the way decided I should obviously step we kind of Still early in in kind of knowing about family and history and stuff like that But I also think it's important for us to acknowledge that there is also power in Stepping up, you know, there is also a sense of that having that responsibility It's like going to a job and just kind of doing okay And then actually someone comes to you and goes, you know what i'm going to give you this responsibility today And it's for you to make it where you want to make it as soon as you acknowledge that as soon as you Turn around and make that conscious decision to say, you know what this is mine And i'm going to make the most of it and i'm going to be responsible There's a power in that I give you an example like The nurseries it's always a conversation that comes up the baby room.

We'll get a baby room ready We're going to be room ready. It's how we're going to be paint.

It's going to be a new crib It's going to be you know, wardrobes or whatever and there's always that The lady will generally have an idea of what she would like it to be colors and all sorts everything else So for me generally I step back and went okay Just let me know what you want to do and i'll pop the wardrobe I'll pop this and i'll pop that that's fine But then the moment where you step back And then you maybe go away or you pass that room again and you look back the paint's dried and everything's looking you like I did that, you know Like I did that, you know, I mean you walk around your house and you went I put up that bunk bed for the kids You know, I did that We bought this and I remember when we had that experience with this we went to the park and this but it was it's all Those memories that we create and the reason why I say that is because that adds value It adds the the the ownership of that gives you purpose, you know what I mean?

And and as a dad Knowing the the mammoth Task that you have in front of you And those that choose to take responsibility for it, you know, the child is your child for life You know, there's this big task in front of us of raising these children Um, you know and they all require different things and different energies outside of what you Your own energy and outside of your partner in your relationship outside of that but just being a dad Looking back at the achievement of that and what you put in and on the early doors Is is very powerful your your responsibility your legacy as stef said, you know that the your purpose is power You know, so once you once you get hold of that and once you actually have a belonging You know, you get so much from it and and it's like being a teacher and seeing you know These kids grow up and and and start Developing for themselves and and really seeing the fruits of your labor counter-fluidian.

It's it's it's powerful man. It's powerful. So I commend all guys We'll jump into a q a section So I've got a couple of questions i'm gonna throw it in and actually one of them I wasn't gonna ask but what i'll i'll probably ask it now anyway, just because both brads and stefan kind of brought it up I'm, just wondering where we'll kind of kind of go with it.

So the question is Can you build a legacy without building a family?

I think yes, you can I think yes, you can but it's the type of legacy you're going to build Do you want a type of legacy where you know, because you can build a legacy without a family and your name's on a building you may be remembered in that way of the as the person who created that amazing supermarket or Tech firm, but if you want to build a legacy like for me my my legacy Is a legacy for change, you know Because my father was definitely not the father to me that I am to my sons, especially that I have sons It's even more important so for me The legacy isn't necessarily about Um my name being remembered or yes, my son has my surname, you know All this and it's not that the legacy is about the legacy for change and about how I I kill a lot of stereotypes that may be around my culture my uh My heritage and stuff and it changes and that legacy I believe cannot be built that way So it depends on the type of legacy you're talking about You know, if you want a legacy for change that legacy for change starts at home, whatever it is that you want to do You know, um, if you want a legacy that's about You know, I I was a person who invented starbucks other things are available before stephane gets And you can do that for a family can't you you can do that for team and that's the difference You want a team legacy or a legacy of that's your family family legacy or team legacy.

I think Is the thing in my opinion? Um, yeah, I think everyone's got a different a slightly different Understanding of family obviously in terms of having mom and dad some people were brought up in single homes Some people have lost parents.

Um, so they're going to have a different understanding of what Their family would consist of you know, if you're Some females feel that they can play the mom and the dad role Um, I haven't personally experienced that so I don't know. I can't talk too much about that We weren't growing up.

We had both mom and dad equally involved and present so my Ambition is to create that or replicate that in my family to have myself and my wife With the kids and that is our family, you know And I would always I would always want to protect that and secure that with anything that I move into so if it is About creating a legacy.

I would absolutely want them to be involved, you know, um Can I create one without the other? for me I I don't know if I would want to I would want them to to infuse I would want them to To one to benefit the other and vice versa. Um, so yeah So as as she's saying rightly, you know, you can't have the legacy without the family my take on that.

I would I would want both to fuel each other No, I completely agree with both of you. Can I just say bradley renovated my answer?

You know, I mean he put like he put a conservatory You know what I mean, but I remember the foundations was me so now you gotta do the loft conversion I think when it comes down to legacy, I think Without going off topic too much I think your legacy whether you have a biological family or your family is The network of of people that you create through your business or whatever.

You're always going to have that family But I do personally think that there's something about you know, I could be richard branson I could be you know mask I could be whoever and it's great that you've created this legacy via your business But then being able to then with you and with your partner be able to create a Another version of you who can then do what you've done for your generation for their generation To me, that's that's a that's a real legacy, you know, that's that's that's where somebody else Has been able to make another mark on the world and to me that's where it comes down to Real legacy and and for me, that's what I'd want So I I personally think there needs to be an element of family To be able to have that Did you have did you have doubts about being a good father?

and potentially prefer not to have a Child because you felt that you lacked something within yourself I would I was certain. I wasn't ready I Wasn't ready. Um But that's because I I sat there and I kind of looked at them I looked on myself and I was like am I where I want to be?

As a man where I can raise kids the way I want to raise kids Um, but that that was more of a personal reflection thing more so than anything else But it's just one of those things where I think everyone sits there and goes Will you ever really be ready?

You know, you're never like you're never gonna really know and to be fair going through it Again, i'm i'm i'm my wife's pregnant right now i'm going for my third child and there's still things that i'm learning you can't there's no such thing as being ready You know, you think you're ready, but you're not so yeah, yeah, that's that's i'd be surprised if anyone can sit there and And find out that they're gonna be a father and go.

Yeah, man You'd be surprised, you know I got this Like I again I had I had my first day in nylon rose cc7 and I raised her a certain way So when I was having my second child ava, I was like, all right, cool. So that banged the first time so i'm gonna do I'm a g Be fine ava run things Ava ava is free. He's turning free, but ava's the one that run things on nylon And when it comes down to it nylon can be quite.

Um, you know She wants to make sure everyone's okay, and she's doing something that everyone, you know, everyone's happy ava's like well If you don't like it, that's cool I'm gonna go do my thing second child bro. It's the second child. I'll tell you what I mean by that is that I I had that confidence that okay I know how to raise a child and i'm gonna do exactly the same thing.

I'm gonna have a duplicate Simple but they're biologically they are their own person So no matter how much you can sit there and put this this this this and this when it comes down to it There is an element where they are Completely onto their own devices and you just got to understand that so you can never say you've got it on smash Personally Uh, yeah, I had um A lot of doubts man.

I'm not trying to dampen the mood man. This is a sensitive issue for me, man So like basically on my dad's side All the men all these brothers Have all basically flopped as that's more or less, you know They've been inconsistent They're kind of in their children's lives. They've got they've all got children with more than one woman I'm not saying that's right or wrong, but I just didn't want that.

That's what I didn't want so The fact of it happening to me and see I just man I had a crazy fear like a crazy fear Even though I wasn't really brought up by my dad He was very much more out my life than in and I and and that kind of Feeling the whole way through going I'm not i'm not going to be like my dad I'm not my dad because I always I could always need to say i'm not my dad because I don't have the children But then once that was coming is that I don't know what I'm with.

I'm not I don't want to be my dad and then I think I went through a whole process. It was a time for the pregnancy that I Was trying to prove to the world And who hadn't questioned me that I wasn't my dad So I had to be every meeting I had to ask every question I had to ask questions that I knew the dm answered to do you know how I was I was Overcompensating just to show everyone look.

I know I have the same surname, but i'm not my dad You know, um Sorry to interject but Has there ever been a part?

For because I had the same scenario with my dad I have a good relationship with my dad, but he wasn't there and I was like I don't want to I want to make sure that I have that Two-parent family where I can and do stuff that my dad wasn't able to do But coincidentally there's still scenarios where I kind of look back now and go okay I can actually see why this happened with my dad.

I can understand why they didn't work as co-parenting so um For in certain scenarios because of it in hindsight So I know you were really fearful of being like your dad But now that you've been a parent do you is there any parts I know to touch your subject where you can kind of go This makes a little bit more sense now um, I understand that he wasn't ready To actually be a father to be an active father.

That's what I understand um And I don't I don't have any negativity towards him like that because if he wasn't him then I wouldn't be me And I have to I have to accept that um But the one thing I learned from him is that it doesn't matter whatever you're going through Whether it's your partner your ex-partner, whether you are there You are there for your child.

Even if your child don't want you to be there you are there Even if you're rubbish when you're there, it's better to be there and be rubbish Then I would rather you know, I mean i'd rather have a memory of my dad going of my dad thinking Remember dad was rubbish when he tried to climb up the tree to get the ball out and he just Rather than remember when my ball got stuck in the tree and dad wasn't there you know, so It's a touchy one, but I I feel I can talk about it because I don't have that that hang up or that fear anymore because You know the way my son looked at me, man is that's a gift every day, especially my eldest My youngest is you don't even know he's a labia.

He's still two months, you know Just he just want milk and sleep and fresh Which is he just trying to balance his head in it He's still trying to roll but um but for me that That is the important thing for me and I think a lot of Me like truth be told I wouldn't even have spoken about this if you weren't doing this And I don't think i've actually spoken to People about other than my wife really open and honestly but I think there's going to be men listening to this feeling that way and the truth is Is just think about being the dad that you would have wanted And that's what I that's what I try and do for my sons, um personally I think that there's never a right time in a sense that you From my understanding women And I said, I don't want to speak for anyone But from my understanding is that they have a preconceived age That they want children so they have that it's not something that you're going to affect or you're going to say All right Can we decide you know, do you mind if you kind of meet now they have an age?

Yeah, and it happens or it doesn't and in accordance to that is where you know they may change that age that they want kids by so we had had a um A plan to have kids or have our first one anyway um, so for me from then it was just about Learning through the process and the reason why I say that is that I think sometimes Pride does play a big part.

We don't want to make mistakes And we think often that mistakes are failure But what we don't understand is that if we're Falling forwards We're making progress You understand what i'm saying if we're able to fall forwards and learn from The mistakes if we're able to have a conversation About how that made you feel if we're able to translate that to maybe Someone else that may have gone through a similar situation.

Then again, that's knowledge being passed on um, I give you an example when Our first one was born at the very early early doors The night feats for me at the beginning It wasn't great. And the reason why I say that is because probably for the first maybe week or so I was sleeping through I was like Didn't hear baby. And so I was getting that Get up Relate to that I was like, oh my oh what am I doing?

I'm messing this up but in my 100% I didn't hear him. All right Yeah Yeah, even from um, like research and stuff biologically the man takes longer to adjust to this Right, even that so the woman's body clock when she's waking up pregnant at those times That's when the baby will more or less want to feed so she's actually physically going through that as a man We're not so it will take us a week two weeks to adjust.

I slept through as well, but my wife didn't nudge me You just got told off in the morning Using that as an example, and I know obviously the subject is Um men through pregnancy and men and men through labor, etc.

Um, the whole feed aspect is such a another Interesting subject as it is if your wife is if your wife is breastfeeding You can't help with that But at the same time You naturally feel obligated that you know if she wakes up I should you know, if I can I should really wake up. I should be there as support.

Um, and Similar to brad's it's like i've been there where i've slept through it and I wake up and hearing oh, yeah Baby work out three times in a night and I'm like you feel You feel kind of dirty Okay, you're right you cool All right, you know it's a shame But funny you say that and this actually leads on to the last question So this is a perfect thing to end on do you or have you ever felt?

Emotionally guilty being the man in that situation during pregnancy. Have you ever felt emotionally guilty? Yeah, I think that goes without saying and I think it's The work thing like being working It drags you as I said the early doors from my first one. I didn't know about the paternity So I was kind of immediately like I need to be getting me back to work Um, obviously, I've got some more information.

I had two weeks And after that I was like this isn't long enough, you know, there's still things i'm learning there's still things i'm doing but at the moment i'm like I gotta go so You do you miss out on on a lot of the early door things and as much as they're saying, you know If it's a lot of breastfeeding you're like, well, I can't really do anything or if it's um, You know changing nappies obviously as soon as you get home you you jump on and you do certain things I mean some guys I I jumped in the nappies the baths everything I'll just do it some guys I know they're like I ain't touching no nappies.

That's your decision but um But yeah, I think that having that freedom to go, you know, I can go out and come back or I can Go for a joke.

I can go gym I can go and do these things when you know The woman is having to deal with these changes to her body to change into the hormones and and the the normality for her Take a lot longer to start existing That being said I will say and again, i'm just being open and transparent to everyone I know that I felt a lot more emotional Once my son was here a lot more like to the point where I was watching certain things and I was starting to well up And and I don't know if it was not really something that I had addressed at the time It's not really something that I had gone like is this normal?

It was just something that I was going through as an experience um But I didn't feel guilty for that and I didn't really know how to approach that And I never really brought it up in a conversation. It was just my own journey, but um, I think that That wasn't necessarily a guilt thing, but it definitely Was there are some experiences that the guys specifically go through?

That maybe maybe the females don't know or may not understand I changed role in my nine to five in jan um and Part of that process obviously you get into a new role you get promoted you want to you want to spend as much hours Showing people. Yeah, this is the new guy.

He's about things But you also want to be there For your partner So then when there's when there's opportunities where you can stay behind after work and have a chat with someone that that's helpful for your career There's that kind of guilty aspect of Yeah, but I know that they're at home right now and they're not in a position where they can really not handle is probably the wrong word, but is it fair to leave someone who's pregnant or with two kids running up and down or or if you've got three kids who are from the age of Seven three years old and a couple of months old having that one person in the house by themselves Trying to juggle all of those all of those things It's quite easy For the smallest little thing to make you feel a little bit guilty um, I think one last one just to touch upon is is small stuff such as Having to look at if you're both working parents and they're going on maternity leave It's you know, and your wife wants to go on the whole 12 months And then you're sitting there looking at and going okay But you only get paid for the first six months and then you get statutory pay for three months after that That guilt of suddenly going I know you want to do the 12 months But you might need to do nine and you know, and having those kind of conversations is still something which As the as a man or as the the leader of the household or whatever you want to call it Those are difficult conversations, which you feel guilty to have but you kind of sometimes have to have those kind of chats I felt incredibly emotionally Responsible in that sense But the responsible to go i've got to be there as as this dad or the dad about to be during the pregnancy I've got to be there as the husband, but i've also got to make sure everything's running and and also being self-employed for me It's like, okay That's another tricky one because it's like oh, you're not booked to go anywhere today.

So you can be at home and do this Well truth be told I could be doing a lot of other things to keep everything else running the same thing You say money still needs to be coming in, you know bills need to still be paid The car needs to be paid for you want to open that fridge and that food is there You might fancy a takeaway while you're on maternity leave You may want to go on holiday and that's a big thing for me One of my small goals is that the family go away twice a year.

That's one of my things Um, and I think it's important because about having that time But also having that respite in the sense of that the wife ain't gonna have to be doing certain things that she would do Normally she can just wake up go beach chill with the children, whatever so I think It is really tricky again as a man You do feel that I do feel like I wish sometimes I feel like I wish I could carry the child for you But then my wife said to me if men could get pregnant, we wouldn't have no children.

I said, you're right It'd be interesting to find out if a lot of women would want us to anyway Because I just want to know by what I mean by that. It's one of those bittersweet things where it's like Yeah, it's it's physically painful. But at the same time, it's a beautiful. It's a beautiful thing to be able to do Oh, yeah Trust me.

So If I was a woman I would that's one of the things that i'd be like a blessing that my body is something can that can That can do that. So would I then want to kind of give away that that magic I don't know. I don't know. I don't think they want to I think they'd call us a lot more. Where are you?

Who you with where you going All right, cool, all right we sign off simon just just just so we know what's your thoughts man On my thoughts see this is this is why I didn't want to get into it too tough because we might be here for a little While still all right. Well, I guess on that I guess on that last question.

It's more so about Yeah, yeah, I guess there is guilt there is 110 guilt because Because There's guilt but then there's pressure at the same time.

So you're almost battling yourself because it's like You're guilty that you can't take on not even the burden But take on the the pressure and the weight of actually physically going through that physical situation One thing that we haven't quickly touched on actually is we've talked about the process of pregnancy But we actually haven't talked about the childbirth situation and going through that and what that's like and That's that's the I think that's the point where as a man Arguably, you probably feel the most vulnerable you've ever felt because you have no control at that point No matter what you've done up to that point once it gets to that point, you can't do nothing What can I really do to make this work make this better?

All you can do is pray at one For my experience anyway, it's just like when it gets to that stage i'm praying bro You're just you're You have so much anxiety at a point so much fear so much pressure so much guilt You feel so vulnerable you you You realize the strength of a woman first of all in that in that point as well, but then it's just like You have you have to just you just give it to god man You just give it at that point.

All you can do is give yourself up to god and say look I need you right now Like I have no control this is down to you right now in it and that's where I feel that for me Yeah I definitely feel guilty and I feel that the most vulnerable ever in my life because obviously i've got two kids and it's like It's it's hard man. It's hard.

But again, you can't take away from what a woman goes through again We're not trying to do that at all But there's still a lot that a man goes through in that same stage because you You're looking at your partner. You're looking at your child and you're just at that point. You're hoping for the best And it's hard, it's a lot of stress. It's a lot of pressure You know, I thought it was vulnerable during childbirth.

Oh really? is that because it's that that stage where it is what it is is that is that why or What do you think that reason behind that is jenny our good midwife again?

We had some one-on-one sessions Jenny really good, but I just knew that whatever happened Nicola was the focus I just knew that and it was and I guess because of what I do for a living just being in a physical situation In a physical environment, I could analyze things a lot more Whereas I think the nine months is a lot of guessing what kind of mood she in what is You know that that whole thing see I was trading more on extras was this was like, okay this is about to happen and We had our plan.

We knew our plan and I I just knew by just by with being with being together I just knew I had her and she had me and I just knew that wherever she was I was there She got in the birthing pool. I was in the pool.

I'm not even joking You know, I mean I was the first man to hold both my sons cut both the umbilical cords You know, I was a buyer it was just basically me and a midwife that delivered the second one There were no big team or two people. So for me, I just felt a lot more I don't know why I just felt a lot more safe.

There was prayer But I just felt like I know what i'm supposed to do here And and I think that was good because especially if my my first son leo Then it just was a nice transitioning to going.

Yeah, I got this I can be a dad from That whole nine months of the fear, you know, um, so it came full circle for me really to be honest So thank you so much guys for sending those questions Please do keep sending them in and we'll try and address them as much as we can on our socials Obviously this platform isn't just about us talking to you.

It's about you guys getting involved as well So continue to ask questions continue the conversation Open up to us about your views and your experiences as well If you've enjoyed the podcast, please like please share Remember to follow us to stay up to date with all of our new content and thank you guys so much for listening Thank you brads. Thank you ash. Thank you stephen and we'll see you guys soon.

Thank you so much. Thank you Yeah, no problem