Ep19 | How Do I Manage Grief As A Man (Ft Touche & Ricky)

People grieve in different ways you can your outlet could be anything you are it could be skydiving gym Whatever it could whatever it is. It can be that so long as it's healthy for you. That's that's fine What's wrong is when people try to tell you how to breathe? I think that's when things become unhealthy because it's not you only you know How things are gonna affect you and I watch best for you.

So if crying is not for you, it's not for you This is talking to my welcome to talking to my thoughts the podcast will be of open honest and raw Conversations about things that are playing on our minds My name Simon aka SJ. I'm video creator.

I'm a father and I'm a business enthusiast My name is Craig aka mr Positive a cheesy motivator with a solution background big dreams and a passion for helping others find and maintain their peace She's and we are joined by our two guests today to Sean if you want to go first introduce yourself my name is to Sean aka to I'm a creative and He's making magic happen Yeah My name is Ricardo aka Ricardo lifting I am a gym manager.

I'm a personal trainer I'm a personal trainer mentor and I'm a youtuber So in this podcast We bring a unique perspective on our inner thoughts by literally pre recording the things that are on our mind Before talking about them amongst a group now We do this because we believe that before you can be open with others.

You first have to be open with yourself So make sure you guys stay updated and follow us on all of our socials at talking to my thoughts Now today our topic is dealing with grief as a man now It's a bit of a sensitive subject.

Obviously grief is grief how it's defined is is it basically a response to loss particularly to loss of someone or something which has Either you have a bond or an affection that is formed with them now, although conventionally focused on the emotional response to loss it also has physical cognitive behavioral social cultural spiritual and Theosophical dimensions, it's a bit man. I Never think about it like that.

There's so many when it comes to grief because it's such a deep emotion There's so many different ways it can affect you Yeah, but I guess we'll just open it up just initially for you guys when you think about the word Grief as like a word association. What's the the first thing that kind of props into your mind? For me like emptiness hurt Something's missing like there's a hole in your heart piece of you is gone.

Mm-hmm I thought think of like bothered like you're bothered by something. I think of grief has been Everything's bothering you kind of thing. I don't know I I take grief as pain It's weird. We know no grief Yeah, yeah, that's a bell Yeah, my kind of word to associate grief is is just pain man. It hurts.

It's not easy at all But yeah, we'll open up that conversation a little bit more But before we do that, we'll probably pay up our first pre record I'm happy to play mine first and then we can just have a listen and open up the conversation. Does that sound good?

Dealing with dealing with loss Yeah, it's a touchy one Not not necessarily because it's just talking about how it affects you but obviously when Loss has affected you in such a big way through your life. It's it just trying to Vocalize it can always just bring back a lot of Sad times, I guess.

I mean I've had Well considering my age you would expect that there would be a few moments in my life where I would have lost people Unfortunately, it's just the way it goes The longer you live the more you lose Well, you gain a you gain a lot as well, but you lose people along the way, unfortunately And I guess the way I manage it is I Don't even know if I do manage it to be honest.

It all depends on the circumstance. Sometimes it's a shock. Sometimes it's a build up a process Like whether the person's sick, but it doesn't change the way it affects you Regardless because at the end of the day you've loved that person and the person is no longer with you. So I Don't know. I don't even know for how I manage it to be fair.

It's just being around loved ones I don't know some people like to isolate themselves. I Guess I go through phases I go through stages of wanting to be isolated wanting to be with my thoughts and then upon reflection wanting to be With the people that Grieving in the same way that I grieve and Trying to give each other strength Yeah, it's not easy man.

I've taken I've taken loss hard in certain in certain times and I've taken loss Easier in others And I guess it don't know it's it maybe it stems down to how Close how connected you were with that person as I said Regardless, you're gonna feel some kind of grief some kind of pain, but how you get over that I guess is just to support support with people you need people around you it's hard because I guess we're again, a lot of this comes down to being a man and being strong and not being obviously people consider crying to be weakness in many respects and I know people friends family who have Been raised that way and you see them at funerals without shedding a tear and it could be someone as close to them as one Of their parents and they're just not crying this because well I've been raised not to cry.

That's not what a man does. I'm gonna do my best to hold it in but that doesn't always happen I've no problem crying I've no problem letting out but at the same time you still feel like you need to be strong for the people around you You need to kind of show that strength.

So Yeah, this is It's almost like an inner battle or in a fight within yourself to try and be strong And not show weakness but at the same time you're hurting you're in pain Yeah, you can see me holding a stern face with his tears still in my eye.

That's what I generally do But Yeah, it's not easy man Is there even a right way to manage it that's the thing I guess some people Then on the circumstance can be angry can get aggressive other people obviously would isolate themselves, I think at the end of day the important thing is is to Address it to manage it to find a way to deal with it. There isn't a way to deal with it There's multiple nothing.

You just need to find your way. It's time times a healer It takes time it takes patience and it takes support takes support takes support. I have actually so many questions where That's I couldn't hear that.

It was there was a struggle in even doing in doing the voice note itself a Lot of Beliefs or things that you you you stick by but you was more taught rather than you believing it was the right thing to do for example Being a man not shedding a tear raise not to cry Becomes it in a battle because actually you believe that you should be able to cry You should be able to just kind of lay out and hurt What I could ask that first question what made you?

Why do you think that is the case that you was taught to not cry or would be a man in that way? Do you but and then how do you believe it? What do you believe about today? It's interesting though because When we talk about being taught how to be a man Sometimes it's more often.

It's not actually Like a verbal teaching it's not like someone's told you this is what you're meant to be or this is what you're meant to do A lot of the time if you being taught by what you see So it's more so about what's reflected into the world and what you kind of connect with so whether you see I don't know You've got uncle that you look up to or your dad that you look up to and he's always been He's always shown himself as a strong man.

He's you've never seen him cry. So then you just think okay Well that teaches me because I want to be as strong as him. I shouldn't be crying either so it's not necessarily a verbal teaching and I think that's where a lot of our as Us growing up to be a man. I Don't know if we almost teach ourselves those things when then they're not necessarily the right things to be taught.

I I don't know when I kind of learned to let that go and be that way I don't know if I Guess I was just I got to a stage or got to an age where I was just a little bit more comfortable in myself and who I was and I just realized that Holding anything in doesn't serve me any purpose and it was just that wall That it's as I said because in my voice that you can hear.

Yeah, sometimes I still want to put on that stern voice with a tear in my eye and It is a kind of a battle within yourself, but I've definitely got to a stage where I can let go a little bit more I don't know where it came from. It's just I've got to an age who is just as I said I've got a bit more comfortable in myself and I just thought you know what I Don't gain anything by holding it in it.

I Don't know if it's like a release It's a relief if it's what it does But it's as we say it's better out than in so that's what I've kind of learned along my life journey to be able to do a little bit more I Find that pretty interesting because I couldn't imagine like when there's a loss all the men are looking at each other Not one of them would cry so they can just cry too And I'm sure everyone's feeling the same kind of her at that point if the person was close enough to them So I have a feeling that it's probably like that But when you watch your assumption and your ego makes you think he's not crying.

I'm not doing it.

I'm not doing it So yeah, I can imagine how how how much of it in about that is and sometimes Again, this is why we're talking to my forces here to kind of have this open conversation realize actually there's a lot of things that we all suffer with yeah, I Agree, I'd like get where you're coming from because growing up as well I don't really see that you don't really see your dad or uncles or anyone really crying in it and Even simple things like you know It's like from I think it stems from like playground and things like that when you are when someone's angry They'd like get teary and stuff and people would be like are you crying?

What are you crying for? You know, I mean, so it's like no guys. I feel like it's like it's like a hard-knock life it's like you'll learn to be you'll talk to be kind of tough and not not cry for things like I've broken bones and Cuts and all I've never cried never shed a tear like you know I mean even though it's painful and stuff like that But it doesn't mean necessarily that you don't cry like for me.

It's like I don't feel like Crying and getting emotional in front of people is gonna make the situation any different for me Do you know I mean me I always save my tears for For somewhere else or if I can't really control it It's never a blubbering Christ more tears in the eyes than anything else And it's not like how you see on EastEnders and stuff when people are crying nothing It's nothing like that.

So I do feel like like men we'd like kind of hold everything inside and have to be like tough It's not you have to be it's just like kind of installed in you already Which I don't necessarily think is a bad thing but It's like when you don't cry some people might think that you're like emotionless Which isn't the case either.

It's just like people I feel like people just express their emotions differently You make it you raise a good point about the support Again, so I'm basically repeated quite a few times Actually, if you could just find the place of people that have shared the same grief Then you can feel a little bit freer in the sense or the way that they grieve is also the same Then you would feel like less judged as well We're key was what your thoughts about Yeah, as I said, there's no right or wrong way.

There's You know, it's it's a constant battle within yourself.

No, it's crying is your outlet That's your outlet but in certain environments, you wouldn't want to cry, you know But if you if you go back to everyone around you is crying you now feel free to cry You're not able to cry versus if everyone had stern faces and they're holding it in You're gonna naturally want to hold it in I guess it's the environment that allows you to do it And what you find is a lot of people will hold in their emotions and they grief and it turns into anger It turns into a different type of emotion because they can't find relief No, and I think it's it's healthy to find a release.

It doesn't have to be crying You know for me, I go to the gym. I lift weights My my release in it and when you listen to my voice voice over you kind of Hear my process but going through it as well. That's interesting No, that why because I think both you and tuition brought it up as well. He's like Why do we feed feel that? we need Approval to cry like almost it's like okay.

Well, if he's crying then it means that I'm allowed to cry Why why why would we even feel that why is that something that's instilled in us as men to think that well? I can only cry if I see another man cry and if he's gonna be stern face I'm gonna have to be stern face that why why do we even think leather? It's not so much for me personally.

It's not so much approval, but it's like I don't like I don't like the fuss Do you know I mean? I don't like the fuss. I don't like I Don't like like not that people fool.

I don't like Pete like I do don't like pity you want people to feel the emotion that you've got, but you don't like I Want to seem like a burden almost it's not a burden in a sense I don't know how to like elicited like in words that that makes sense But to me, it's just like like me crying in front of people and stuff like that They already know that I'm sad like do you know?

I mean if you lost someone or you're upset about something someone you have a Ukraine is not gonna like indicate it more to them That you're more upset or anything So that's why I don't really feel like you need to need to cry in front of people And also because of the situation that I went through I didn't see like because I lost my sister I never want to see her cry about her situation.

So I was like she's going through this.

She's actually physically feeling this I'm just like emotionally feeling it through watching her and what she's going through and I didn't see her cry once So for me to cry I felt like like yeah like that is weakness to me That's weaker than her like she can do it without crying then there's no need for really for me to cry not saying I haven't Cried but sometimes it's by myself.

And then if someone asked me a question, you know, you wipe your face straight up signs in your eye I got hay fever Whatever it is.

You know, I mean, it's like it's like all of these things you do to like kind of disguise it But at the same time you do want like recognition that you're upset and people to give you your space and and things like that At the same time like when Simon was talking about sometimes feeling like he has to isolate yourself away from everyone But then other times you want to be around people That that feel the same way as you but I found being around people that are experiencing the same thing as you It's like for me.

It's like when my mom's upset about something. I'll be like Okay, like why are you so upset about it?

We're going through the exactly the same thing and sometimes I do feel like a bit harsh on on other people because Like she might feel a certain type of way about the situation And be upset about it and i'm not that much as upset as she is about it And i'm like, well if I can if I can soldier for it, you should be able to as well But then again people experience things differently. I lost a sister.

She lost a child her first child Do you know do you know what I mean? It's completely different.

So it depends on the person and the Circumstances sometimes to the way that you um, you act to things You act to things Um, yeah, you brought a good a good sorry you brought a good point there around um People experience it a bit differently and I think uh something to keep in mind We're going to move forward anyway But something to keep in mind is to know that the times that you did keep it in did it make it better or worse?

For anybody that went through loss in their life when you kept it in Do you think it made it better or worse something to think about when we move forward with the rest of it? Um, but we'll kick off with Ricky's um Voice recording and then we'll we'll hit that you know Loss is something that It doesn't matter who you are It's a hard thing to go through. Um Man woman or child. Um, i'm not a woman.

I'm a man and I was I was a teen but you classed as a child When I went through the biggest loss, um That I had to face, you know Over years i've had to go through many losses of family members most times it was like a A grand uncle or grand auntie for the most part. Um When I was 16, I lost my dad Which was I don't know indescribable. I think it When you lose a parent it There's no way to describe it.

That's that's A big hole in your heart. The only thing that you can compare to that is losing a sibling or losing a spouse so It was hard for me. It was It was a flood of uncontrollable tears uncontrollable emotion And it affected me in bigger ways than I thought it did, you know I was 16.

I just finished school It's in my summer holidays and I was actually away in Saint Lucia for the first time without Parents, you know, it was just me my cousin we went to Saint Lucia summer holidays It was the longest summer holidays we'd have because we finished school. I was going off to college. Um I went to Saint Lucia and I get the call that my dad's in hospital and I was like Get the call my dad's in hospital.

My mom wants me to come back. That's all I get told. Um I thought my mom was Being a bit I don't know a little bit emotional because I didn't know the severity of what it was By all I know is my dad has spent all his life never been sick never been ill The last time he's known to be in hospital Was when I wasn't even born and he ripped his achilles tendon Like that was it.

So So I came back and I see him in the bed in a coma And it shocked me. I've never seen my dad in this state. I've never seen him In hospital let alone Tried to tubes And having a machine support him And in that moment, I didn't know what to do.

I was just kind of frozen just kind of stuck And I would never forget the words of the doctor So my auntie and uncle asked the doctor Um, how's he doing expecting positive things because I heard that there was A few responses in terms of his movement when asked certain questions, etc. So I expected something positive. The doctor said honestly He's dying And my heart sank and I just burst into tears.

My mom hadn't even had a chance to tell me And I just get told that and I I Know as I can describe I kind of blacked out. I just Cried and cried and cried I cried The most I've ever have done in my life And to be honest ever since then auntie's funeral Haven't cried ever since I can't say it's me bottling up emotion.

I just now desensitized to a lot of things because of it I've experienced loss since then Like a cousin who was close to my age Um, and that hurt me deep because I was in st. Lucia I was living in st. Lucia and I had no means of coming back To come to the funeral. So that kind of hurt me. It was my age.

I'd I remember good memories I actually said I need to spend more time with him because I had spent some time with him, but Not as close as maybe some of my other cousins um But it was too late.

He got shot down in the street Wrong place at the right time Um Yes, it's It's a hard thing to go through and No one deals with it One way is no right or wrong way What helped me get through it was um Just keep in mind everything that I do I want Whoever have lost to be proud of me proud of my actions, you know, I lost my dad I've lost cousins.

I've lost both my grandfathers, um As well as extended cousins extended family grand uncles and aunties um But those especially that were close to you I think the only thing you can do is Know that they've lived their life to the fullest.

They they lived it with no regrets And make sure that you just take the teachings practices Teachings practices and experiences and those memories you have with them And just fulfill your life the best you can Because that's what they would want and if they was watching you they want you to be happy and You want to make them proud. So that's that's what kept me going.

That's what pushed me through it Um That's what keeps me positive throughout it, you know, yes, I miss my dad. Yes.

I miss these people My cousins, you know my granddad's But at the end of the day I know I can't bring them back All I could do is All I can all I can do Is use their teachings their words and their wisdom To live the best life that I can You sharing that with us, I think it It's why we kind of do what we do with this platform is is being able to Give an opportunity to be a bit more open and be a bit more vulnerable and And share our stories as much as we can and kind of See because obviously a lot of the stuff that we we do talk about does resonate with a lot of people But they're just not as vocal about it.

You're not the only one going through this.

We all go through it And I think it's important that we We have conversations like this Whether you think it helps or not, even if it doesn't help you You never know it can help so many other people just by hearing you share your story It can help so many other people just by hearing you share that thought and that story So first of all, I just appreciate obviously both of you guys for doing that as well My question would just be how because one thing I kind of picked up on is after you said obviously your your dad While he was passing obviously it was it was quite an emotional Stage for you in your life.

Well since then it was interesting there. You said that you haven't really cried since What why do you think I don't know if it if in your mind it was a case of you Trying to shut anything out or how you kind of use that as a coping mechanism Why do you think that you felt that you you don't I don't know if you do it forcefully or if it's just something that naturally happens Now, why do you think that is?

Honestly, it naturally happens. I don't like Since that time and my dad's funeral my dad's funeral was kind of like the last release That I think I needed Um, and then after that point there was no need for that type of release anymore Now i'm not saying I cultured it the best.

Um, to be honest, I went through college and I'm not saying I did terrible things, but My focus was away from my studies I spent a lot of time in the gym socializing. I didn't understand why and when it came to my grades, I got I'm not saying I didn't get the greatest grades I found Ways to distract myself Of it that I didn't realize was actually taken away from my studies.

I didn't I didn't even think I didn't register it um But it did and I just had to come to the realization and just correct myself But it's a process. It is a process. Um I said crying is no longer my go-to Worst thing is before that happened I used to cry all the time like in front of my parents.

I didn't cry necessarily that much out outside of that But in front of my parents or at home, I would cry about certain things if I was upset or if I was hurt, etc It's when I got past that I stopped crying. I stopped I started telling myself not necessarily that I need to stop crying, but Crying doesn't help the situation what does That's what I started doing.

So I started manifesting any Frustration rage, etc Grief, etc.

I just started manifesting it in different ways That is more productive Than just crying because that's just the outlet, you know, I say I go I go to the gym That's an outlet and it's building my strength Sometimes I socialize and that's building deeper relationships and connections with people like that's that's little ways where I find it's Being productive. I don't know.

That's my my natural instincts now Yes, that's interesting though, because I think I mean I agree with this point because to shows made this point and you've made this point craig obviously hasn't chipped in with that Yet, but it's interesting how we've all kind of had the understanding that Or the thought at some point where we think crying doesn't solve any things. So why do we need to cry?

Like and it's just almost like a go-to attitude i've definitely had that as well where it's just like It's not what what is it solving? So I don't need to cry. It's not solving anything. Who's it helping? Like when you come around you see me crying and you want to give put your shoulder your arm around my shoulder The person's not coming back. What what good is that? I get it.

But at the same time We we do need to find our release in one way or another and for some people crying actually does do a lot because it's It's an acknowledgement It's an acknowledgement a lot of the time you want to hold in that that pain or you want to hold in that grief and just think well You just have these constant negative maybe thoughts in your mind about why why?

How could I what could I have done when really and truly once you get to that stage where maybe you can cry It's almost like a release.

It's an acceptance and I think that in some some respects it does help I didn't really realize that until later on in life but I think as men I think it's important that we can use crying as a mechanism or as a tool to release I'm not saying you have to but i'm saying if you feel like crying then cry It's not a problem and I think we need to kind of because as I said i've had that in my head I'm sure you guys have as well I think we need to as the as men to just get that out of our mind that crying is an issue It is a weakness.

It is a vulnerability because it's not I don't think it is funny enough for the viewers the audience, sorry, and that don't know me and Ricky our first cousin, so that was actually um my uncle and yeah, we were all after that it was a really Shocking tough loss just out of the blue literally normal life and then boom And it happened quite quickly and then afterward but the funny thing is is that what we remember about it is what happened afterwards us being together for like a good week or so playing games and Eating and doing the stupidness all the time.

So we always remember that piece about it And also reliving his memory while he while it was happening was constantly just making jokes and stuff that he would say And then some people would randomly burst up crying Just remembering what happened But you know what all three of you mentioned the part about you feeling that you didn't have to cry and i've I haven't felt the same like I haven't had that same kind of loss.

So every time I haven't had a losses probably as strong as You guys but in a sense every time there has been a loss of i've always thought about somebody else is hurting more than me so when it came to Ricky's Dad Ricky is hurting more or my auntie is hurting more or my dad who was kind of was basically his best friend And then there was like a granddad which was basically well my granny is gonna hurt more or my parents are gonna hurt more Um, so I always stayed strong for them.

So I didn't cry for them, but when they cried I wouldn't see it as a nuisance And I don't think you usually see it as a nuisance about other people crying either Well, I guess too she was a little bit different when your mom's hurt and you're like I need you to get over the hurt so or like not cry So I don't feel like I have to in a sense.

I guess that could be where you kind of came from So I think it's not that we see crying as a bad thing for others, but it's for ourselves We don't want to be put in that situation Yeah, I I think it is more of just an acknowledgement. Is there a question in there? Do you feel that actually?

Yeah, this kind of resonates with the question We had just before I kicked it off with the recording Do you feel that the way that you dealt with it or the fact that you don't cry anymore is healthy or unhealthy? Um to be honest I it's not like i'm physically trying to stop myself from crying anymore like I get to a point you might feel it.

Sometimes you get that that feeling your chest where your chest is heavy You know your eyes water a little bit and then I get to that point and I don't go beyond that point And I end up most times if it's when it comes to grief, especially I know normally I talk it out like i'll talk to somebody just share memories All good memories because you obviously don't want to share anything bad.

It's all good memories and it gives you something to smile about That's what that's most times what I do. So, um I wouldn't say it's unhealthy for me not to cry anymore.

Um, just because I said that's not my outlet I It's not something that's natural to me anymore What like like ricky said I don't like when you're not actively Trying to cry or not trying to stop yourself from crying you don't really see it as a problem You wouldn't really see it as unhealthy because that's literally the way that you're dealing with it.

Um, so not There's other ways that you couldn't express the fact that um, you're upset or that you're going through. Um, all of these like sad things, um other than crying but to me it's like I don't know like like you were saying when you guys were talking about your dad and um, Like, you know people making jokes and other people cry. I find myself now, um like I wouldn't cry I don't know.

I I cry more like I get teary and stuff more when I think about happy times than i'll do sad times Um about loss, so I'll think back to like, you know In regards to my sister.

I think back to the times when we was like, you know Playing and and doing all them kind of things and like I think about that stuff and when I think about that stuff That makes me more upset than and not upset but it's just like teary but you smile as well because it's like A happy memory as well, but it's not necessarily I don't sit there and think oh she's gone And get upset about it That resonates more into like anger at the situation more than it does sadness But I get more emotionally like sadness and more teary when I think of the good times rather than the bad times Which is a bit odd because before I used to question myself Like Why am I not crying?

Do you know do you know i'm saying because I heard the news of my sister Um passing my dad called me kind of thing and I kind of like was just blank Like that I didn't feel any kind of like emotion like at all Like I did feel emotion like but it hadn't hit me yet because I like maybe partly because I wasn't there to see So you don't believe it.

You don't believe something until you really see it But at the same time I question myself Like have I got a soul or something do I like do you know what I mean? Why am I not why am I not like in tears? Why am I not on the floor? Why am I not like uncontrollable? Why am I like able to walk and drive and to the hospital and stuff like that? Why why can I function properly when i've taken such a massive hit?

Do you know what I mean?

Like so I did really question myself as to like where I'm like emotionally Do I am I like detached myself or or whatever but i've also taken like losses as well before that prior to that um when uh When my friend died when I was 15 as uh, simon knows because simon was the one that actually called me on the day when it when it when it happened and Like losing someone your friend when you're young It's different because you don't like you're not taught these things like i've lost like my nan my grandad and stuff like that So I know about losses, but I didn't know like a friend could just just go you think of like back Then I used to think only people of a certain age can die Like that's how I felt And it's only recently that I've kind of discovered to myself that like his passing.

I kind of like almost ignored it Like not ignored it to a fact. I didn't care or anything like that. It's just like I didn't act on it. I didn't Talk about it. I didn't like emotionally.

I just detached myself from the situation completely And I don't think that was a good thing because it led me to start believing things in my head That something was going to happen to me when I was like 15 or something like that I couldn't see a future Like I used to think because he was taken away so young and what was happening with like knife cram and stuff I thought I was next i'm not going to lie to you I thought like so i'm going to be walking down the street and something's going to happen to me So from that I just became literally emotionless because I just thought what's the point in anything because tomorrow I could be gone like This person on the bus that's looking at me a bit weird Is this the person that's going to take me and I used to think about that a lot But I never used to really express and talk to anyone about it And it's only until one of my friends said that like have you like planned for a future for yourself Do you think about like happy times and things in the future or are you just thinking too negatively because He because he's gone you think you're going to go the same way kind of thing So yeah It is it is kind of unhealthy not to talk about things and not to let things out and just to bottle things up But I don't think necessarily The way that you you express yourself and stuff is wrong in any way because like you guys said People grieve in different ways you can your outlet could be anything you're you're out It could be skydiving gym, whatever it could whatever it is.

It can be that so long as it's healthy for you That's that's fine.

What's wrong is when people try to tell you how to grieve I think that's when things become unhealthy because it's not you only you know How things are going to affect you and what's best for you so if crying is not for you it's not for you Yeah, you've identified I guess maybe you've even identified during the conversation that realized naturally Okay, you know what?

Maybe I didn't cry or don't want to cry but there is it's actually there. It's okay It's okay And I really like this conversation because somebody always does a voice recording at the beginning really confused by the end of voice recording Like oh that's some clarity there. But again, it's again of giving us this ourselves the chance To just speak to ourselves and sometimes we really especially grief.

We rather just block it rather than Process it in a sense. I think even simon kicked off the beginning of the whole the chat and the whole voice recording where you just said I'm not even sure if i've managed loss yet. I've actually Done anything about how I how what my outlet is or is the best way?

So this is something you may discover over time But as you said at the end too, she's just you know, it's your way your time and Whatever you feel is the healthiest and you'll know when it's healthy and when it's unhealthy in a sense Um, so yeah, thanks for that.

I think it will help a lot of people that's listening as well It sounds like a lot of pressure because when we go through those stages of Thinking okay someone first of all when you said oh, yeah Well people are telling you how to grieve because they're automatically putting their expectation on you Which first of all, I don't agree with anyway But I because only you know how you can best deal with it So I a hundred percent only you have control of your emotion only you have control of yourself and how you're going to grieve And I think that it's important again to acknowledge it and then find a way to navigate through that Because as we kind of addressed it's not healthy to cut it's not healthy to keep that in um I just I don't know maybe my question to you would be why do you Feel that there is even why do we even put that pressure on ourselves to even try and think about How we should grieve or even think about how the external world will Will see us in the way we manage ourselves as men and manage our grief as men Why do we even put that pressure on ourselves?

I think kind of it's because of society and the things that we've seen and the things that we've kind of experienced around us So like I referred to like east enders or soap operas and stuff like that before um, but if you use that as an example when you see someone um, Like pass away on the tv or a relative of someone you see everyone like, you know breaking down everyone crying Everyone like, you know people like almost losing their mind almost, you know, I mean people not And I feel like from that it kind of teaches us subconsciously that like this is the way that things happen This is the way that you deal with things And you can watch like multiple things on the television or or whatever And you will see the same like you'll see a pattern emerging of like everyone kind of doing the same things So when it actually happens to you If you haven't experienced loss before the only example You're going to have of how to deal with it is things that you may have seen on the tv or things that you may have heard And so on so I feel like that's that's partly the reason why to We are the way that we are and the way that the reason why we might question The things that we're doing as maybe that's wrong or Or like i'm not doing this right or like, you know It's an expectation almost and people do put the pressure on not pressure on you, but they kind of like Feel like they're giving you advice on how to do things, but that's how they would do things It's not necessarily how you would do things and because they're like you can have three people telling you the same thing So if you're doing you're doing the complete opposite to what them three people have said Majority rules you're going to say that the way that you're doing it is wrong And I think part of the reason why we might necessarily Be told or think to deal with it in that way is because I think if you look back at like generations I don't know about you guys, but when I look back at the different generations like parents grandparents They never They probably dealt with grief but never Really expressed to us anyway how they identified how to grief You know, we're having these conversations and I can identify this is how it's affected me and this is my means I don't think So this might be speculation, but i've never been told or shown This is how they've dealt with grief and this is how it's affected them and I don't know if they've necessarily reflected it Reflected on it.

So sometimes they're telling you to cry because That was their only outlet. That's the only outlet they knew You know, they didn't have forums where they discuss things like that a lot of times the older generations when it came to grieving After the crying phase the emotional bit sometimes they just hold everything in That's what I know.

They used to hold everything in they wouldn't have like even something as simple as talking about that person Because i've seen it like they don't talk about that person and when you do talk about that person, that's when it just comes out But what I did me personally I Kept talking about my dad until I didn't have to feel that heaviness anymore It was now good memories.

It was now smiles I could happily talk to a stranger about my dad and I didn't feel any kind of way Because I know the life he lived Uh This is an interesting one actually Uh, do you feel like? being a man forces you to desensitize death Oh um That's an interesting one.

We could say no but media games Other things social media would say otherwise because everything well, not everything so let me not be too too Pessimistic about it a lot of games and other things you kind of do desensitize death action movies You desensitize death and not even just normal death like gruesome death So it's almost like it's just like it's almost it's I would say it's like a game, but it is a game like um, so this this I There's this whole debate about all games are violent and it's causing our children to learn the wrong things and then i'll be like No, man, I love games man.

It's not doing that But then the same time when the action movie comes on is saw something i'm laughing at saw rather than being like oh my god This is human beings being killed in a fake world in a sense so i'm going to say yes, we Are these we are desensitized to death? Why? I'm unsure.

I i've i've been questioning a lot of things I guess in my last few years that the world the system that we're in is kind of put in place to make us ignore ourselves Which includes ignoring ourselves as human beings as well Like knowing that we're not just machines that are supposed to work not just knowing that we we have emotions We can express it this which is the reason why the rise in mental health awareness because people are genuinely suffering in their head as ricky mentioned before um will almost shown What how to deal with death and maybe it's not the right or the wrong way But what we've never been given the the explanation and the reason why we weren't given explanation from previous generations because they didn't have self-awareness But now when a place where mental health awareness requires you to have to be self-aware for you to take any control So things are slightly shifting right now where the generations are like I kind of want to listen to myself I kind of don't want to just what they say Um, just be told what to do and then just do it because it doesn't seem to be working really well Yeah, we are I think in many respects we are as I mean I definitely agree with craig we are in many respects desensitized to death But we we're never really taught to deal with it when it comes close to home Um It's unfortunate and I think I I what one thing I would like to do by the end of this conversation is realize that the process of grief We we need to think of it I don't want to say this like bad, but it's not there needs to be some kind of Positivity that comes out of it.

So it's not always a curse of Being down being negative being out letting it consume I think there's always there's going to be a stage where eventually we get to A happier place where we can just look back in the person's memory and be happy um but I think now unfortunately in in kind of even in the society that we live in because Death is getting closer to home with whether it's knife crime gun crime all sorts of stuff that it does unfortunately In particularly for men as well Become desensitized because you you see it a lot.

It's unfortunate, but you do and I think that It's a shame It's almost like a protective barrier because it's like if we expect it to happen now when it does happen we won't get hurt as much It's that well, I knew that was going to happen. So because I knew it was going to happen I kind of mentally prepared myself.

So then when it does happen It doesn't hit me as hard When the case is it's always going to hit you hard, especially when it's close to home So I think that's my kind of long slash short answer to that is yeah, I do think now unfortunately we are desensitized to it and it's not just because of movies or video games because it's it is different when it comes close to home, but Because we see it so often in movies in games in the news It's a protective mechanism to be like Yeah, it happens.

So now I just have to move forward and deal with it and that's just unfortunate man When is the last time you cried or bald?

for a happy moment All right, i'll say for me in the last probably in the last couple years I found myself like watching a few movies watching stuff on instagram, which is just like either super touching or Something that the movie just hit home kind of thing and that has probably kind of made me teary I haven't allowed the tear to drop yet though.

I need to get to that stage It's got me to the point of being at least teary and I think actually one of the movies I need to watch again Which was the pursuit of happiness? I watched it once in my life and i'm telling you that that movie was hard to absorb And i've been i've been looking at on netflix. It just keeps popping up and i'm like, I know what you're saying god But i'm just give me time man.

Just give me time. I'm gonna watch it again So that one I think is probably gonna hit home.

Maybe i'll come back on the podcast and told you what tell you what happened So yeah, that's from me Um, I wouldn't say bull my eyes out I'll just say yeah, just some it's sometimes it's movies Um, I watch animes when something good comes out of the anime like at the end But it's just it's just that that little little tear that stays in the eye It's just held there and it's a smile on your face.

I think that's that's about it. But to be honest, I haven't really cried at Like cried like there's proud moments like Remember my cousin's wedding In solution, I was the best man because my dad would have been the best man. I think that kind of brought that Kind of pride In my eyes, like I had the little tear didn't drop but I was just happy I was happy because I was happy for him Saw him as a happy man.

It was it was a wonderful ceremony But I think that's that's the last time I would say that I remember Well, I haven't really cried for like Like happy like I don't really get emotional of like things but i'd say going over like memories So like, you know snapchat, I don't know if you guys use snapchat, but everyone knows you get like a year or three years memories So, you know you get a little red dot click on it.

I'm trying to get promo from snapchat So yeah, I was using um, yeah, I was just on snap and yeah Occasionally go through the the memories and stuff and it was just simply like a clip of like my sister bowling Like like well, not just her it was me.

It was my brother Like was all bowling, you know the competition the sibling rivalry and all that kind of stuff And just hearing everyone's voice and happiness and like who won though who won who won do you need to ask? Oh, yeah, no, it was just it was just like It's just a happy event. Do you know what I mean?

And it's just like, you know, it bring like you say it brings it like a tear to your eye and like I'm like i'm quite thankful that like like going back onto a point I know it's a bit off topic like what you were saying before about the other generations not being able to Like, you know express themselves and that but we've got like so many things at our disposal right now That kind of help and aid us like people have like black and white photos of their mom and dad from We've got like videos like recordings and stuff, you know, like I can still like Hear My sister's voice and stuff and that brings like happiness to to it's sad But it's like brings happiness that you can hear her still because her memory's still there Do you know what I mean?

So that like memories and stuff like that and the snapchat thing that kind of brings tears of happiness like because you're experiencing that whole thing over again Happy moments, I don't know Not really crying happy moments to be fair. It's more I don't know if it's even teary yet. It's just pride. I get I get a lot of pride in Just watching my kids grow as well.

Sometimes sometimes I just it's weird even like i'll be at home and i'll just be staring at them I'll be staring at my girls and i'm just like Like i'll i'll black out for a minute. I'll just be staring at them. Just like It's beautiful, man. It's a beautiful thing. You've brought someone into the world.

They're growing they get older they they're learning They look like you a little bit And it's just Yeah, man, I mean for me my kids are the biggest blessing i've ever had so that's for me I don't necessarily cry But there's definitely proud moments even they could just be sitting down watching tv and i'll just be turning around and just stare at them like wow That just wow So yeah, that's the those are the moments.

Those are the happy moments for me where it just gives me a sense of Joy fulfillment and and it's just overwhelming love man So that's how I I kind of I may get not even teary-eyed, but it's just definitely an emotional moment just seeing them grow and That that that can happen anytime it could happen any day I'm sure it happens all the time and I don't even realize but um for me.

Yeah, that's the that's the biggest thing for me That's the biggest thing What do you think your your?

Positive coping mechanism is if there is one I'll do my one since it's probably quite light um I pretty much just spend the time with the people that I also went through it, too um, and we could just watch some movies, uh, I guess I got a good part of it that I always remember was obviously with um Ricky and the family, uh, and we just played games and we I tell you that every time We keep remembering some of the stupidest jokes that we had during that time and it just keeps coming up So I guess having that moment and then there's a there'll be a moment when we're all together and the majority of us that are together That were there that at that time come together.

We're like it feels like that again so I guess kind of just Doing the things that you enjoy with the right the people that I know know have felt the same pain um, yeah Cool um, yeah similar cause obviously we we went through that experience and I think that's that's one of the things is Just doing things you love with those people reflecting on those memories talking about The good times the good stuff, you know, and I said gym is another outlet.

That's a completely another outlet It's healthy, but there's not much to say about it. It is what it is But yeah, just spending time with the ones that are around you that you do love because yeah You may have lost someone you love but you haven't lost everyone you love So just cherish who you have around you Um Yeah, quite similar just uh Spending spending time with people.

Um And doing things that you you kind of uh, enjoy um through this I kind of felt like I wanted to shut myself away and not talk to anyone and just you know, just be angry at the world kind of thing But then I sat and thought about like all of the help that I've received The help that i've received um all the conversations i've had with people people that i've met through even through the loss Like people i've met people that have reached out to me then tried to help and spread the message Spread my sister's story and stuff.

Um I felt like I owed it to to everyone to like kind of um To be there like, you know to continue to tell her story and stuff like that so I guess my my mechanism is kind of Telling her story and like making sure that it's like never forgotten and that her memory is forever lasting as well as Spending time with the people that are closest to you is always the best like it's the best mechanism that like shutting yourself away and Thinking about things to me Doesn't help me personally it's a beautiful thing man when you can turn something like grief and be able to To use it to help Give that person's life longevity through your own life through your own experience through sharing Their memories with other people and being able to basically carry on their message and their story and I think Definitely something I think at least for us and our listeners is going to be important is to again Get past that stage of grief where we're thinking Why how what could I have done and start thinking?

Let's continue their legacy in some way or another let's let them live through us now They're not going to be here But they've given us memories and they've given us experiences that are going to last a lifetime and we can then pass that on So I think that it's a beautiful thing that we can take something which is so sad And be able to let it blossom into something which can then be a lot more beautiful Wicked so amazing.

Thank you guys for sending in those questions.

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Thank you for the conversation. We really appreciate you opening up to us and everybody else Thank you so much for listening. Catch you guys soon. Take it easy everyone. Have a good day