Ep10 | Why Is It Important To Talk?

No matter what happened the weekend or last week, let's just pick it up and let's just go go go go go But go go go is the problem in our society there is no acknowledgement of there's a massive knowledge of promotions and pay rises and achievements where we drink up and we cheers it up and we have parties etc but when you're when you've had a Depressive state and you've and you've just been able to wake up brush your teeth and get back to bed That's an achievement and we're not we're not congratulating that we're not acknowledging I was in such a bad state and I still got through the day.

I'm still alive That's a big deal What's going on everybody? I hope you are doing well Welcome to talking to my thoughts where we have open honest and raw conversations about well our thoughts The topics will range from anxiety the life goals relationship kids money work Everything that runs through our head so, you know, the possibilities are going to be endless. So let's get straight into it It is Craig aka. Mr.

Positive And we've got a couple of extra guests, but I'll just introduce myself Simon aka s J What's going on? My name is trouble off.

Thank you for having me guys ill you'd okay also known as gin Stefan aka s JP People so we have a new topic for you, which is actually about the importance of men being open Especially with other men, but just being open in general I'm gonna kick it off straight away something real controversial, but let's pick up the word vulnerability on Wikipedia the Definition or the meaning is the quality or state of being exposed to the possibility of being attacked or harmed either physically or emotionally What?

No, I'm gonna lie to you that's probably how men actually really think vulnerability works Like that's it's about like you just being exposed and almost being harmed processing that one and I'm gonna give you I'm gonna give you the extra controversy is Have you ever imagined there being power in being vulnerable?

That's the thing because the moment you said that and you explained that I was like none of that sounds masculine It's horrible because we sit there and we go and because it doesn't sound masculine The natural state as a man is to go I'm none of those things Yeah, and and that's I think that in itself is the problem that that that in itself is the first problem is straight away All of those things sound like if a man has that his masculinity has been taken away.

He's no longer a man.

Yeah It's already but I was like Actually agree with that still I haven't really thought about how I define what vulnerability is but that kind of It resonates with me a little bit because it's like being vulnerable is Having that fear of being attacked in one way or another as you as it describes this whether it's a physical or emotional or meant like That vulnerability to open up and be like, okay, don't hurt me.

Yeah, that's what it basically is It's like I'm gonna be open with you about something. Don't hurt me. I don't want to get hurt by this. So yeah, that's crazy Wait, so I pick up this topic because I actually work with a group called mentality, which is Dedicated to creating spaces for men to be open and have important conversations without judgment And be very honest about it.

And this was mostly the initiative that was put together By Eben for only men only for men actually but it was because of the high suicide rates of men and The high amount of depression that men go through which in particular has a very strong correlation to men Not being open and not speaking and feeling that they can't speak because of the way society sees them, etc, etc So as we know being open has a very strong relation or is about being vulnerable at the same time because when you open up about something people now have Easy way to point it and prick it and poke it and be like, hmm Look at this look all these faults look all this this imperfection look all this Thing that is anti masculinity in a sense and that is what scares men But can also lead men into a very dark and very lonely place.

So this will pick up this topic We could get into the discussion, but maybe we should just everyone's still in process I'm not gonna everyone everyone's just nodding like this is a bit of a mad one you know what for me yeah, like it's funny you say that because like I didn't before My career ever really like Make and if like an attempt to really attack that word vulnerability I hadn't really like taken time to really even engage with What vulnerability meant because as a man, like you said, I think the norm for us is to be masculine and to Be macho and it's sort of like the status quo way in it, you know, nothing affects you men Don't cry, you know all of these kind of like stereotypes that you know men or us as men brought with and end up having to it's almost like a character that we almost take up without a choice in a little way, you know because you know when you're young and you're playing football and you Someone tackles you your parents say get up boys.

Don't cry. And then it's like that is the Notion you grew up with to be a man is to not let things affect you But when I started my career in music I Think that's the first time I even ended up really using the word and bringing myself to understand what vulnerability meant because being an artist Requires you to be vulnerable.

It requires you to write truth and speak truthfully not everyone does but I mean in some ways no artists can hide from stepping up onto a stage where it's just all eyes on you and literally everyone's entertainment is you and that spotlight now and you have to Succumb to vulnerability you have to put yourself out there in order to be able to share your talent share your gift share your voice So when I started doing music, I realized that vulnerability was where my strength lied because it for me to be able to overcome the fear of getting onto the stage to Be everyone's spectacle for three or four minutes or whatever that song consisted of Meant that I had to be a strong person somebody who was Mentally stable enough to get up on that stage not make a fool of myself and showed people had fun gave my truth Engage with them, even though I didn't know them and you know you grew up not wanting to speak to strangers and you don't want to put your Life out there for everyone to see and you don't want to trip up and for everyone to laugh or whatever So I think music gave me that first real sort of context that vulnerability has strengthen it But when you're touching on being a man and being vulnerable Like it's still something that I'm still processing because when you step off of the stage You're no longer the artist.

You're just a person and as a man It's still a requirement and I'll put that into all that speech bubbles It's still a requirement to you know, be there for your misses, you know Be there for your little sister be there for your little brother like you we're not almost allowed to be Yeah vulnerable in that way that you said which is sometimes emotional as well and you're picking up on that is yeah And that is the key parts right there real tough.

It's especially yeah for me I feel like that's that's one of the toughest things because Really? We need a space as men to deal with all the pressures that we have But because society says you you should just suck it up It's um, you know, you shouldn't man up Yeah You should man up basically and all these are like all these these lines man up suck it up Don't boys don't cry.

These are actually Have been identified and people see them as just being extremely toxic in the sense These are not ways that you don't bash each other You don't tell people to force people behind a mask or behind a wall or whatever it is just to cover up because this is How people are suffering in silence, so?

You picked up on some great topics and it's nice to say to see that you've Realized ways that you have to be vulnerable and in how you now you actually have to bring that back into your life again Basically, but we won't waste too much time.

We're gonna get into the voice recordings as you know, I'm talking to my thoughts we Put we basically record us speaking to ourselves because the way we speak to ourselves is very different to how we speak to other people So this is a time for us to listen very closely Not a judgment but just understand and resonate with some of the pieces that we go through so we will play a recording from Stefan And let's just get straight into it mental health Why should men open up?

this one Kind of hits hits home for me as a father as a husband Business owner Yes, it's a big one and I think I think it's easy to kind of go down the route of you know, the misconception a That a man must remain stoic and must You know remain tough and and and emotionless And I think we've all kind of gone over that kind of misconception in life, I think a thing that Helped me open up Barring having strong people around me who I could Talk to you.

I Think a big thing for me that helps me open up as a person was Doing stuff such as being a director in video production and You kind of realize you you can't you can't do everything on your own. You know, you need a team You know, it's great.

It's all good and well being a videographer but it comes a time where you have to Spread the workload so that you can survive really So until you kind of open up and Show look, this is where I'm struggling You can't kind of you can't really progress so I use the example of video production or Maybe having your nine to five or whatever A Kind of a firm believer and you need to have people around you in some cases or better than you at problem-solving And the same way when you're at work When you're at work, you become a manager you start delegating and then as a team you all succeed And that makes you look better as a manager You kind of have to do the same thing in my opinion in life you know if if you by opening up to My wife about the fact that I might be struggling with it It then allows her to kind of guide me as well Openness I think is a big thing Openness is one of the like the most utilized trademarks of a successful man Could you think about it?

It usually involves every successful man. If you think of Steve Jobs Whoever it usually involves sharing a problem and finding the right people around you to find a solution and You can put that scenario into family life or business innovation If you're opening up How are you really learning to overcome your problems?

Well, I think The underlying issue is it is a wider one In my opinion it kind of always comes down to the fear of being judged You know I've in all cases and if we go down the route that we're probably thinking of regarding relationships and being datable There's that fear of what if I open up?

I'm gonna look soft or I'm gonna Kind of They're not gonna like me and I think that's where that's the bigger challenge more so Maybe not, you know Why should men open up? But what's stopping them from doing that? Interesting actually.

I like the way that you've you've used your Experience or your knowledge of how you apply yourself in your work environment and using that same Same mentality to then tackle your own issues and how you then bring that into life in other respects would be your relationship as well It's difficult because not a lot of people Can process issues in that way they may not have the experience of managing a team or having that Work environment where they can learn those traits or those skills that have been then be able to apply that into issues within their own life and then learning how to use people to To to better themselves and open up But how easy is it for you to do that?

And and how do you actually go about doing that when you when you have a problem and you need to address it with your Wife about something whether it's something that she's done or it's a general thing that you're dealing with How do you go about doing that? How easy is it?

I think I Was a an only child on my mom's side So it was just me and my mom growing up had a relationship with my dad But in regards to the household, it was just me and my mom. So naturally I had quite a good Communication and good relationship with my mom To a certain extent.

I don't know if anyone else here is an only child But you kind of they kind of become your best friend your mom your dad your everything So you you kind of get used to communicating with somebody who is not Your age mate is not your like your mate in regards to you're both a guy or both this So I think that helped in general Because of that I had to kind of go out when I went to school.

I had to Kind of proactively make friends because you don't have that brother or sister who you can expand it with and learn social skills from Doing something use an example again of being a videographer where you've had where you know having to do everything yourself and then realizing Look, you know, the BBC is not one guy, you know But kind of going down to the whole opening up thing until you can kind of sit down and analyze and go What are my strengths?

What are my weaknesses? How do I get the support I need from this? You're never gonna be able to move to the next step and bringing that into a Not on a work environment, but like a life environment the first step really has been able to Self-evaluate and go. Okay, cool. Who am I as a person? Where am I struggling? Okay, cool.

So it's this or I'm struggling because I don't have time Is the reason why I don't have time because I don't manage my time. Well Always the reason why I don't have time is because I'm not very good at saying no So because I've said yes to everything I'm constantly going here here here here and here and I'm tired and then I don't have time for my family So there's it's being able to kind of be self-effacing and go.

This is what it is Can I fix this myself if I can't? Okay, cool. Well, who can I speak to and you know, it's a One of those things where you learn by error there's gonna be some people you speak to I've got certain some of my boys in all honesty if I speak to them about any conversation That's not related to girls.

I can hear them zone out So I know you're not the one that I need to speak to when I've got when I've got a problem or when I need To speak about something vulnerable.

I've got Maybe three or four people who I can think of where if it's a vulnerable state I'm in I can doubt him and they can Point me in the right direction or at least be a sounding board for me and you need that From the recording I picked up a few pieces, but I think one of the key key parts is actually Acknowledging problems now to acknowledge a problem is to Obviously to recognize it in the first place and to believe there is or even a problem And I think men find that hard because there's a lot of Expectations they have about who they're supposed to be or who a man is supposed to be So if a man said that it was supposed to be strong if there was ever a case they expressed any level of physical mental or spiritual weakness They don't associate with them.

They're like no that's not happening.

It's just it's just it's just a thing So they'll acknowledge the problem So if you can't know is the problem then you don't even know who to that you need a pro you need somebody to open up To you need that you need help so the point is actually To people for people to kind of let go of believing that there is there are men in this world I have everything put together Nobody has it put together.

So remove the lie and you can begin to even Start to open up and acknowledge what's going on. But yeah, let's that's my part about that piece.

He's not happening No, I like that boy And even in the fact that you're being proactive and speaking to another a man In particular even if they haven't gone through those things per se It's still very important to bounce like you said like that soundboard it's still very important to bounce off that person because Even if they haven't gone through it, you don't know what you might be teaching them as well And that's what we need to try and create a community of like mended men rather than a community of like broken men who?

Kind of like as you as you said pass off that they're broken They don't know that they're broken because they're not tackling it with other men you might need Uh to acknowledge your own vulnerability, but they might not even know that They need to as well, you know, I mean and you talk sometimes you don't even know who you're teaching by just being open um, I think um This also starts from like way back.

Let's take it back to second grade school times like if your boy is Football all the classic guys stuff, you know, I mean but At home parents are fine. The situations are happening So you can't go you don't feel like you can go to your boys at the time and explain to him Well, this is what's happening or i'm gonna cry. We're just gonna tease you.

That's what you think in your mind But then you forget that you're also gonna grow. I mean you're gonna turn into a man You're gonna experience different things in life. That's gonna hit you in the face. That's what happens. It's the classic thing but as men You never know like us sitting here together just talking. I never know if you're going through something as well Or we can all learn from each other.

You know, I mean, I feel like it's okay to open up really And i've learned how to do it because naturally i'm a very quiet person. I mean, um, I keep to myself most of the time but Because I do music as well.

I sing i've learned how to be vulnerable just like you I mean, you've got to be vulnerable and that's where the power lies because we eat you up and that's what you don't want and yeah So we're gonna There's the eating you up is what's something that we're gonna touch on but before that let's play. Um my recording Um next and let's get into it What is the importance of men?

talking To other men or being open I think i'm like my journey that that probably started about two three years ago where I started to discover there is uh uh Strength in being vulnerable I don't think people associate the two of them with each other strength and vulnerability usually people associate vulnerability with like being a little bit weak feeling Exposed feeling um, you could potentially be attacked or something could be used against you But I actually believe Vulnerability has strength in it when you can be have the courage To be vulnerable You'll be able to own your story own your emotions and own your actions and the things that you do I think i've i've done that I think i've been able to have these kind of open conversations where I only have one rule when i'm with people or in a certain environment If I can if I cannot be free with you or if I cannot be free in the environment that i'm in Then I don't belong there Well my friends or I don't belong in whoever's life So if i'm at work and I can't be free, I don't believe I belong at that workplace.

I should go somewhere else And if i'm among friends where I have to put a mask on or I have to be fake or I have to be a certain way Which is just not me Then those friends don't belong in my life or I don't belong in their life And i've had friends i've had to let go of because we just don't align maybe i'm going through something or I have a challenge that I have to go through and It's just not working out i'm having a more conflict or I have to hide something or I can't talk about certain topics So I take myself out of the equation and when it comes to work, yes, there's been times where Um, I think everyone has this like separate they separate their life from work And and I kind of do that but actually when people ask me what do I do what I do on my weekends or personally I'll be very honest like a lot of my colleagues know that i'm I'm a pageant king or I do modeling or I do Um, like gone stage in half naked costumes and obviously they don't understand the culture but it's up to me to Explain it to them and if they if they're willing to listen But if they're not willing to listen or if they shun me for it for it Then I know that these colleagues are not for me and maybe my workplace isn't for me So I believe the importance for men to speak to each other or be open is just for them to understand What society says about what a man is supposed to be is actually not true Nobody has the one answer for all when nobody has the one description And to speak to other men and be open is to then understand Actually Actually I have I am being a man Even if i'm not what society says a man is i'm being a man and everybody has the same struggles and I have that I have this I have this conversation with my cousins my some of my brothers Um, some of my other friends where I can actually just speak to them and say look bros I'm struggling with this or i'm going through this or have you ever experienced this before?

And when I explain that to them, then they say yeah me too. Oh, yeah I thought about that before or you know what?

I had somebody else have that and then you start to realize actually the things that you think about yourself is very normal What society says a man is or how you're supposed to act is not the normal But what you think is normal because you are a man and that's the stuff you do Being open with other people just allows you to be free understand your thoughts and understand the position that you're in And i'm really grateful that I have those kind of people in that kind of environment But it did take me a lot of decisions and a lot of choices to get around that and to curate that in my life So be open be vulnerable Yeah You know now I just I think straight away I think the whole room kind of when you spoke about the courage aspect I think the whole room felt that from someone who Used to train as an amateur boxer I really you you have to have the courage in boxing to know You're gonna get punched in the face You have you have to have that and and until you can kind of make yourself Be comfortable with the vulnerability of the fact that someone's gonna punch you in the face You can never Step up.

Do you know what I mean?

And before Anthony Joshua was Anthony Joshua He was someone who had never been punched in the face or had never been in in that kind of environment And probably had to spar against someone who was much better than him But it was overcoming that fear and having that courage to go look I'm gonna step in this ring and I might get put flat on my face Immediately kind of getting past that is what allowed him to get to where he is now I know that's just that's one example, but I I just think it every element of greatness is usually something that Is new or is fresh and the only reason why they were able to get to that stage is because they said look This is a little bit different to the norm I'm gonna step out of my comfort zone and society's comfort zone and go screw it Let's try this And that's where you reap the most reward I think Um It's it's weird though Because where does as you said a lot of that preconception of what we believe a man should be like who Who is in a position to even?

Make that statement. How do you how did we even come to that point where it's like well, this is what I mentioned You know, what's funny though?

The definition of a man is probably something that's been taken from a woman in my opinion You have to say that But and the reason why I say that is because when we talk about being a man what we're also talking about is what is seen as desirable to the opposite sex So it's and I think everything that you do regarding being a man is well with a woman Your potential mate because as as humans as animals are our heart.

The whole concept is that we reproduce we we we We continued the lineage So if what you're doing is not going to make you Someone who is I don't know if the word is mateable or whatever it is Then it's deemed as okay.

That's you're not you're not being a man a man is meant to attract a woman Whether that's based on you being masculine or based on you being open to your emotions or whatever Yeah, I think it always kind of comes down to that in my opinion And I think that's why society kind of references what a man is as something that we expect A woman to want which is a six foot five hen spreader Who can bang up anyone can make as much money as necessary and is not afraid of anything you know, but um, I mean Yeah, that's it's just an interesting concept about how we all Grew up and then why just trying to get to that level of understanding of why Men don't open up in the first place and I can tell you about my own personal experience about me is i'm not generally one to open up and it's not because it's like I haven't wanted to It's just that because of those Misconceptions or those things that are placed on you to what it is to be a man for one is that you're you're the rock You're the one that's You're the support.

You're the one that's meant to take all the pressure Yeah, you understand when you're in a relationship you can't be the one that's crying all the time When you said it, yeah, I just imagine like simon like And the joke is that that initial reaction I couldn't even control it Every single thing that we've referenced in this room that is not seen as masculine Whether we intentionally or not, we've either laughed or we've smiled our way through What you use fetal position, yeah, you use an example of a ever defenseless baby But if we was talking about a woman crying we wouldn't be talking We would say like that it's actually It's funny but that's because for us we're wired to see that as that's banner And this one we're trying to reprogram this is real life men and women cry and All of us are going through pressures in our own way in our own kind of way if any in in With loads of things that we we we impose on ourselves And the sense of like if simon did have to have a cry and his and his partner's there that is actually A beautiful thing and in honesty if I so because i know simon's basically family to me if he was if I was literally There and simon was crying.

I wouldn't burst out laughing I wouldn't even shun him away or anything.

I wouldn't I would just be like bro, like just be there and start to listen But when we start to imagine it in a more of a like a like as a like a comedic thing Then we're like, oh that's that's banner But actually when you come into reality, this is real life if you need to open up if you need to cry if you need to Find a way that you can you have a way of um offloading the the pressures that you feel You take that that roots no matter how someone's going to judge you and as I told you In my own voice note if the person that you're with or the people that you're surrounded with do not allow you to be free And offload and be human Then you're not supposed to be in their life or they're not supposed to be in your life And that is the simple simple rule no matter in what way and that could be that could be your parents That can be your aunties and uncles that could even be your cousins or your friends or your colleagues to remove yourself.

You have one life So really is so it's so precious.

Yeah, but I think what we also need to do is find a way in society to find a way to prop up people who are struggling in a way that's not defined by their whether they're male or female an example That I had to pull myself away from i've got again just to kind of clarify in this part as well I've got i've got two daughters And my oldest is seven And she was really nervous and really bothered about something and I was giving her words of affirmation and trying to help her and it got Some point where she was kind of still bothered by it and still kind of scared by things and I was I wanted to kind of say like just believe in yourself But the word the sentence that was going through my head, it sounds really horrible was man up and it's like And I was like, okay, what other word can I use at this stage?

That kind of says like man up like it's fine.

Don't worry You've got this that doesn't use the word man up and it also made me sit there and think if I had a son And I was using the terminology man up to my son I'm only you i'm using that in a sense of like Be positive like stand up for yourself But because I couldn't can't think of any other terminology about mine up all he's going to be hearing is I need to be more manly And manly means being able to defend myself now i'm going to pick you on that because my aka is mr Positive.

So actually the whole thing I when I first started mr. Positive was always about being positive all the time Now how I really progressed in my life dramatically was when I actually started to acknowledge the negative properly And i'm not saying oh it's negative.

I'll just pick up your pick yourself up and go like a man up It's a very simple thing So the issue the blocker you had was that you was too focused on bringing them to a positive state Instead of actually just accepting what the negative is. What is it that you're scared of? What is it that is holding you back? What is your worry?

How do we nullify that and realize it doesn't exist fear isn't something that was given to us by god This is something that is created. Why does it not exist or understand it? Why do you have it? Let's say I don't know they don't want to swim but they had an experience of them almost drowning How do we what is the precautions we take as human beings were survivors?

So fear is a real emotion and it's real So again, I think the reason why you had the problem of going to that next stage of how do you help help her properly?

Is because we didn't you wasn't acknowledging the negative and I was very positive But where every time in the morning no matter what happened the weekend or last week Let's just pick it up and let's just go go go go go but go go go is the problem in our society There is no acknowledgement of there's a massive knowledge of promotions and more um pay rises and Achievements where we drink up and we cheers it up and we have parties etc but when you're when you've had a Depressive state and you've and you've just been able to wake up brush your teeth and get back to bed That's an achievement and we're not we're not congratulating that we're not acknowledging I was in such a bad state and I still got through the day.

I'm still alive. Yeah, that's a big deal. I love that um again if if if someone wants to break up if a couple breaks up and the female Decides that she wants to stay in our bed for that for five days and and and be upset about it That's seen as acceptable if a man stays in his bed for five days and he's upset at the relationship See what i'm saying everyone starts chuckling.

Let's go to the club It's real everyone starts chuckling because in their head you're thinking man up you might not be using those exact words But you're sitting there thinking like suck it up bro.

Like there's there's other girls out there And I think until we as a society can get past that fact that A man can be as vulnerable as a woman in certain situations I do think there are scenarios where it shouldn't be that but In situations like that until we can say that a man can be that vulnerable We're gonna always have this kind of issue of well, is it okay for simon to cry?

You know, is it okay for you to not be able to do this or not be able to leap that that that kind of wall Or whatever, you know, I think one thing that's that that's gonna help that is As craig was saying is finding those people who you can be vulnerable with because You need to be able to be comfortable in that state and if you're around people that Are not making you comfortable to be that way gonna judge you, right?

That's what makes it difficult and that's why a lot of the time As men or as boys when we're growing up We don't feel that maybe we can open up because of that judgment We're gonna get naturally as soon as you say something small like, oh, yeah, I was crying last night But why is it just laughing at you says like where I can't I can't show them that I had Yeah, I ain't gonna tell them that again But stop laughing at me bro When it comes about the next thing you have to book someone just to kind of limit it back out No, it's just it's an important thing to to find those right people that allow you to be able to get in that state There's nothing wrong with being in that state And the fact that people will judge you for it is what the problem is and I just ask a question that for for you Guys who are both in the music industry Especially especially for someone who's a singer as well.

How do you find it regarding the concept of?

Um masculinity and opening up and stuff like that Well something I had to learn But then it's something that comes naturally to me because like if you're gonna sing if you're gonna write a song As we sing about girls, I think about every situation basically that comes to me I've got to be able to put myself in a position That's believable when somebody hears it, they believe it and they can actually feel it.

You know what I mean? So So with that being said like i'm just vulnerable in that term, but then also like he said like um Off stage and off out of studio is the human part You know what I mean comes in there's challenges because I grew up around Woolwich, you know what I mean? And my boys around me they were none of them were singing. You know what I mean?

You know, I mean the first time even some of them found out I could sing they were like, wow, that's sick But oh you wanted you're trying to be like trace songs You know what I mean? Like teasing me and all that stuff And it was challenging at first because like i've never really been in sports like that. I mean, I never really played football like that um I was always into art, you know what I mean?

And I had to pass through that and also when I've like relationship wise as well like certain girls females like I've been told a lot about you know, you're quite You're quite a deep guy emotional guy, you know what I mean? But that's just how I am You know what I mean? I've learned how to put myself out there because I was quite growing up really quiet.

I used to keep things in and like My parents were going through some crazy things. You know, I mean got sent to Uganda to study for a bit and You just learn you know, I mean and thank god.

I was around the right people right now You know, that's that's really important because if you know the right people you're gonna you're gonna feel like you can't open up and you're gonna suffer I feel like your music has just taught me to just be vulnerable all the way at this point I don't even care about anymore.

You know, I mean and it's taking time Yeah What I would say is quickly two points One is like being an artist and then another is being a songwriter. So a lot of men like that are songwriters You've got your famous ones like neo and party next door.

They'll write songs for females And there's no judgment because no one sees the person behind the pen kind of thing And I think for a lot of people if they knew That rihanna's hits were made by like a man like some people be like they'll quick they'll probably question his sexuality first or you know, and that's just because unfortunately Um, like craig was saying we've got to normalize We've got to bring it back to a point where men can also be vulnerable or empathize with a female empathize of another man And then it becomes okay to talk about things whether vocally or in, you know songwriting form I think as an artist sometimes Um, you know, uh the men especially they forget that you don't have to like Be who your friends or your hood or your environment says you should be you've got a talent You know, you can use it to better yourself and it can actually change you In a positive way if you are able to step out of that context of that Oh if I don't if I don't come back with you know, 60,000 pound chain on my neck and still in the hood People won't respect me anymore Um, as you know, we always try to leave you with a food for thought a bit of advice from each one of us So i'm just going to give you a quick bit of advice find people you can be open and free with and that's as simple as that Really?

Yeah I concur Uh, no 100.

I definitely think just Kind of summing up summarizing the conversation as well as we understand that It is for one important to open up but you have to be able to open up to the right people and just understanding that if you if you feel that the person that you're speaking to isn't the right person to open up to then finding those those people that are Actually close enough to you for you to be able to feel vulnerable with it's just about identifying those right people so that you can Basically get those things off your chest Yeah, um just want to say thank you for the opportunity as well to express myself and to hear About you know other men that are going through things that I definitely can relate to in this room and I think you know, this platform is very very important and um, yeah, um, I look forward to hearing more and being involved in supporting this platform because I think it's yeah, it's awesome, man.

Thank you guys Likewise, it's an honor to be here really.

Um, this is really Eye-opening, you know, I mean, um what I will say Life isn't a fairytale Life is real There's going to be situations where you're going to go through that's how you find the courage to deal with it And I think for me, um my thing is Just do it just just open up if you if you feel like you need to speak about something or you feel like you need to open up about something test the waters If you're if you try until you try to open up with somebody You're never going to know if they're actually one of those people you can put on that list Um, and what's also good is it lets you know who you're wasting your time with as well If there's certain people that need to be categorized in your life and the quicker, you know that the quicker You can make sure you're putting your your mental well-being in the right place at the right time So this was talking to my thoughts a platform where we were very open with each other and we promote those kind of things As I said, I work with a group called mentality Um, you can follow us at on mentality live on instagram and other platforms as well This is a place where we want to create spaces for men and other people to just be open and have these kind of conversations So follow us tell us your stories and we'll have so much more for you on these kind of subjects So thank you for having us.

Thank you for our guests as well. We really appreciate it Yeah, and just peace and have a good day. Yes